Textures rezzing very slowly

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Snoots Dwagon
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Textures rezzing very slowly

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

Since back in 2005 when I first reported a major texture bottleneck on SL, I've been interested in textures on our worlds. "If the 2D doesn't load, the 3D doesn't load". (What I'm speaking of is textures loading from inventory for user viewing, or a texture rezzing on a vendor.)

I've been timing textures on three different systems. Pardon if I use OSgrid as a benchmark:

On OSgrid, the smaller a texture is, the faster it loads. So a 128x128 texture will load very quickly, a 128x256 will load in 2-3 seconds, 512 will load in 5-7 seconds, 1024 about 8-10 seconds. (Note these are generalized averages and will not apply to every single texture load ever. Figured I better cover my rump there.) ;D

On Kitely, the average texture loading time (on my system, and it's a moderately-fast system) is 15-17 seconds. Today I was testing 128x256 textures and they were taking an equal amount of time. This would be considered exceptionally slow, especially for such small textures.

It's possible this is partly a matter of how the viewer is interacting with the asset server and suspect that some tweaking on both ends is probably needed. But as a creator I'd love to see that 15-17 seconds drop at least by half, and smaller textures load faster. When one is going through textures to find "just that right wood floor"... waiting 15-17 seconds for a texture to rez can be very time consuming. What I usually do is call up half a dozen textures at once hoping they'll rez faster overall and then look at all of them at once, but that seems to extend the load time overall. (I've never gotten used to using a texture organizer; they've always felt cumbersome to me.)

Please note I haven't done extensive testing on this yet, using multiple viewers, nor have I formed a consistent average of statistics to back up this post. I'm just pointing out slow texture load times from a user's viewpoint and timing a couple dozen textures to see the average overall: it's slow. Would like for someone smarter than me to figure out why, and fix it. :D

Thank you thank you!
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Re: Textures rezzing very slowly

Post by Ilan Tochner »

Hi Snoots,

I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers from. Please clear your viewer cache, restart your viewer and log into the Kitely Welcome Center. Set your viewer draw distance to 1024m and zoom out your camera so you can see the entire world rezz. How long did it take from the moment you were logged into the world?

When I did it just now the entire world, including meshes and all the rezzed textures, took less than 10 seconds to download to my computer. I am on a 1GBps fiber connection, so my downloads speeds are likely higher than most, but the point is that Amazon's CDN (which is what our assets service uses) provides very fast downloads.

One thing to keep in mind when you do this. Stop any streaming to/from your home network while you run this test, otherwise those video streams can consume your network bandwidth and slow down your downloads.
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Re: Textures rezzing very slowly

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

I agree with everything you say Ilan. And yes, a 1 gbps feed will be amazingly faster than the average Internet connection.

I'm not streaming anything while using Kitely.

I'm not talking about the world rezzing. The world rezzes as quickly on Kitely as anywhere. I'm speaking of double-clicking a texture in inventory and waiting for it to rez on the screen in a texture display box-- the time it takes to turn from gray to rezzed. I've run this test repeatedly, numerous times, on different days.

I've flushed cache. I use a relatively fast desktop computer (see below), more than enough to handle virtual worlds. And as stated in the OP, I've tested this on three grids. If it's desired I could test with greater intent and provide statistics (and happy to do so if it helps), but I don't think that's necessary. I've been using virtual worlds just short of 16 years as a sim owner, builder, scripter and merchant. One gets a feel for these things. :P

The best way to see what the everyday user is experiencing is to visit Kitely on an average-power computer with an average Internet connection. I'm not stating there's something wrong with Kitely. I'm suggesting this warrants looking in to. Wherever the bottleneck exists, I think it can be agreed that it shouldn't take 15 seconds to load a single texture from an inventory call.

My system:
Intel Core i5-7600 @ 3.80 GHz
Nvidia GTX 1050 2 gig video
8 GB RAM
Windows 10 Pro
Internet ~ 200+ Mbps
Test sim fps: 55
Physics fps: 55
Ping: between 66 and 133
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Re: Textures rezzing very slowly

Post by Ilan Tochner »

Hi Snoots,

Do you get different results when you open the same texture directly from inventory and when you open it from a rezzed object's contents (e.g. a box's)?

Do you get different results when you open a texture that has been accessed recently (but isn't in your viewer cache) and one that hasn't been opened recently?
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Re: Textures rezzing very slowly

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

Let me run some more thorough tests and I'll report back. It'll take a few days but I'll try to get some proper data for you. : )
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Re: Textures rezzing very slowly

Post by Chris Namaste »

:)
thank you snoots & ilan for this topic & getting into,
icant xplain things 'at all' via typing,
so im grateful u both do :)
my experience is same as what snoots asks info for
and thanku sincerly ilan for all y great work,
ive been testing & trying in all ways i could think off and all ilan advices as well,
& wonderding if other pple have this too?
if so,it might b interesting to add your experiences, so ilan knows?
thanks kindly,
christa
Chris Namaste (inworld i use notes & voice - i rarely chat nor im)
Chris CreationZ url kitely market : https://www.kitely.com/market?store=914 ... &sort=date
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Re: Textures rezzing very slowly

Post by TheMad Tadder »

Chris Namaste
ive been testing & trying in all ways i could think off and all ilan advices as well,
& wonderding if other pple have this too?
OK, I too have been have been experiencing this texture rezzing delay for some time now, however not only in Kitely, but also in SL and on other grids.

I use the current FireStorm 64bit (not BETA EEP) for SL and I use FireStormOS and Singularity when I come to Kitely and other opensim grids.

So, I decided to do a texture calling time test between the FireStorm and Singularity viewers.

As Snoots noted in this forum post above, when on FireStormOS viewer in Kitely the texture rezzing time can be up to almost 20 seconds. I also found this delay time frame was about the same (*if not longer!) with FireStorm viewer in SL.

With the Singularity viewer in Kitely and other opensim grids, I found the called texture rezzing time was only 7-10 seconds. Granted, Singularity viewer is a much lighter programme in comparison to FireStorm, but 1/2 the time for texture rezzing is quite significant.

Therefore, I'm considering the texture rezzing delay isn't a Kitely (or any other grid) concern, it's more likely a new FireStorm viewer condition.

How this would be changed is beyond me; save contacting FireStorm and seeing if they even care to consider it.

Perhaps other multi-viewer users could to do their own testing as well and then collectively, we could present a larger client concern to FireStorm.
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Re: Textures rezzing very slowly

Post by Selby Evans »

I have been wondering about the texture delay, since I have never seen it. If it is a Firestorm problem, that makes sense--I use Scenegate.

https://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com ... emsim.html
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Re: Textures rezzing very slowly

Post by Chris Namaste »

thankyou TMT & shelby,
yes, im :( about it, FS should really listen since its been reported & other stuffies as well

thanks for y friendly responses,

and yes, i know about sing & scenegate :)
i have them both, (my partner installed them for me)
thing is,thats only (in my case,donno if its 'normal') icant use those for good mesh (having-uploading-working with-seeing) mesh
all the best:)
christa
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Chris CreationZ url kitely market : https://www.kitely.com/market?store=914 ... &sort=date
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Re: Textures rezzing very slowly

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

I would agree this could be primarily a Firestorm issue. I don't discount it may be partly an Opensim issue (in accessing the asset server properly and texture time-slicing); I can't really tell from the user end. And since I'm not a Firestorm or OS dev, I've really no idea what handles what. But it seems from the above comments that texture fetching could be speeded up.

I've tried making suggestions to the Firestorm folks in the past. I know they have a lot on their plates, but I've received more resistance to bug reports than, 'Okay we'll look into that". Last time I checked (last week) Firestorm bug report registration was closed. So that limits what end-users can do.

I'm wondering if grid owners might have more influence there. If a grid owner contacts Firestorm and says, "I have numerous reports of slow texture loading from inventory"... maybe Firestorm would give this a look. And if it is a combination of viewer and Opensim issues together... well, I'd love to see texture fetching averaging 2-4 seconds. That would also be good for shoppers who are trying to see a new item rez on a vendor screen (how many times have we walked away from a vendor because of getting tired of waiting for the product texture to rez?).

That's the reason I brought this up to start with-- to help improve Kitely. The better the performance... the more users. Kitely rocks. We just want inventory textures to rock faster. ;D

Firestorm is a versatile viewer, but bottlenecks are not unheard of. Example: a rezzed object with contents of 50+ objects usually takes a very long time for Contents to appear. I've seen a box with 300 items in contents take literally 5 to 10 minutes for the Contents to become visible. Comparatively, Singularity takes about 10 seconds. That is obviously a Firestorm issue... which is why when I build, I switch to Singularity. That is one problem I would like to see fixed.

So it's possible this texture bottleneck may be Firestorm-centered... although I get a feeling it may be partially due to how Opensim fetches inventory from the asset servers... which is the trick with multi-layer software. Asset Server --> Sim Server --> Viewer. Which is the bottleneck program? I think it's reasonable to assume (from the above reports) that Firestorm is at least part of it. But since my textures load faster on another grid than on Kitely (see OP), perhaps it is best to examine the problem from the standpoint of both grid and viewer. Bottlenecks are a bear to locate, to be sure.
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