Kitely Mentors Group meeting, 29 May 2013: summary

[Dot Macchi]

Attendees: Ada Radius, Dundridge Dreadlow, Sierra Jakob, Minethere Always, Cider Jack, Brian Roberts, Ilan Tochner, Min Tigerpaw, Coco Boccaccio, Stiofain MacTomais

Update on backend development
During the past week Kitely has been working on two features behind the scenes:

1. making sure that direct deliveries are robust so that people won't need to ask marketplace merchants to resend items;
2. implementing the Export logic in a way that allows Kitely to track the provenance of each bought item, at least as long as it remains inside Kitely and some cases even after it is exported and brought back in.

Ilan expanded on the second item, responding to questions from the meeting.

We are able to know the transaction the item was bought in, which can help resolve a lot of potential issues. We can't prevent copybotting but this type of information will enable us to eliminate the effect inside Kitely so stolen items won't be resold (future feature -- not initially available).

Think of it like a serial number that is etched on car engines so if they are stolen the police can use them to know the item isn't legit and bring the car back to the owner. It adds info that is also saved in OAR files -- inside Kitely people can't change it but outside it they can (if they know what they're doing).

It uses code contribution we've made to OpenSim about adding extra info to an object; you can find the discussion in the OpenSim dev mailing list (search out correspondence that included Oren).

The goal at this time is to save the data so we'll be able to leverage it in the future -- there are quite a lot of systems in our backend that enable all kinds of future capabilities.

The content creators were particularly taken with this second development with regard to security of content.

Ada also commented: "The tech/security guy for our nonprofit is making me learn about steganography, and that's another thing we could do, the texture makers."

Feedback on using the merchant control panel
Several were very happy with the panel: "it's easy"; "I had no issues with my one item"; "Yes ..now I've put in some more it's straightforward"; "it works.. like the alternate versions thingie ..so much I did a few extra textures"; "actually i had fun with it, pretty easy to set up"

Ada brought up several issues:
"When you're giving me general advice on fixing attributes, I can't figure out which items you mean, and the thing keeps sorting to last modified on top, so I can't keep track of what I've already looked at."
"It would be much easier for those of us who are left-right impaired (many artists are) if the ordering of what to fill out that triggers the next menu would run from top to bottom in a column, and if the link to change the pictures were the big picture icon itself."

Cider commented that she was confused by the two different parts for 'variations'.

Stio, Ada and Cider asked if it would be possible for creators to have some sort of access to what the eventual customers will see -- whether for their own benefit, or to help other creators having difficulty using the system: "If we could see each other's listings we could help each other."

Ilan said that it was a good idea but not yet implemented -- it requires the buyer interface, which is not yet done. As a workaround when helping others, he suggested using a Skype screenshare. Dot said another possibility might be JoinMe.

Encouraging content creators (and others)
Most of the meeting was a wide-ranging discussion on how to encourage content creators to try out Kitely before the Marketplace opens. "If we want it to be an impressive opening we'll need to have as many creators represented as possible."

Coco said that she had told a lot of her designer friends to come for the early bird discounts, "but they say ohh not many people yet so they'll check later; they told me paying for entry fee is nothing if they would know there is customer." She suggested targeting role-play communities, since role-players don't tend to mind a smaller scale inworld economy.

Ilan suggested letting merchants know that they have a chance of free listing on the home page of the marketplace if they become Featured Merchants. With regard to numbers, educators are fine with a smaller community, and relatively self-contained role-play communities are already on Kitely. There is also a free Kitely Merchants Sandbox: http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world/Ila ... ts-Sandbox. Kitely Plaza is also free: http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world/Ila ... tely-Plaza

Coco suggested setting up an SL group called "Kitely in SL".

Min mentioned some people not coming to Kitely because they do not speak English. Minethere offered a translator HUD.

Timing
The marketplace won't open before the end of June, possibly in July. There is a ton of backend stuff Kitely needs to make sure works well before real money is added to the equation.

Ada commented: "I like soft starts myself. There will be bugs, glitches and stuff to deal with. We're already finding that out just getting our listings up properly. It's not easy."

Several expressed hope that they would be able to finish listing their items in time for the opening.

Stio, Minethere and others thought that when Kitely is eventually opened to the hypergrid it would make a huge difference, particularly in terms of potential customers ("from 1000 to maybe 100k").

Min thought that once creators saw the Market open, they would come. Ada agreed: "Kitely marketplace will work, but [it might be] unreasonable to expect a lot of creators to arrive before it opens."

Incentives
Various incentives were suggested and discussed.

The main incentive for content creators is the offer of Featured Merchant status to people who upload enough items. This includes a free shop in the Kitely Plaza and free Featured Merchant listing in the Marketplace homepage.

Events
Min asked about "a danceplace with good music and good dancing". Stio mentioned that there are some copy couple danceballs and a singles ball with about 80 dances in Virtual Belfast Island: http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world/Sti ... st-Ireland (they are in the Maritime Club in NE corner). The need for DJs was mentioned.

Ideas for other events included a "crafts" fair (not discussed further) and a fashion show. Ada mentioned that she had been booked for a fashion show on the 22nd June, but wasn't sure whether the instigator was still planning to do it. Min said she had done a bikini fashion show in SL.

Coco commented on the need for models to make a fashion show; Minethere suggested a Kitely friend as a possible model. Ada highlighted the need for animators.

Coco asked about scripts for communications during fashion shows. Ada suggested using small group chat rather than scripts for backstage communication -- "works better than scripted objects in a crowded sim".

Adverts, articles and Facebook
Ads are currently being run on SL Universe -- the ads appear about every 6-7 page refreshes. Kitely took the highest frequency ads for three months.

Kitely's Facebook link is https://www.facebook.com/Kitely.Virtual.Worlds

Ilan mentioned the feature on Kitely in Maniera: http://maniera.mymaniera.com/

Coco suggested other magazines that might be more widely read than Maniera: Avenue http://www.avenuesl.com, and BOSL http://thebestofsl.com/ She said that these two magazines have their own agencies, and could create an event or fashion show in Kitely. In SL they fill a sim every time.

She also knows of a marketing company in SL: http://redlilymedia.com/. The owners are a RL photographer and a woman who worked at HBO -- "They are great at creating an audience for places. They did campaigns and stuff."

Bringing items into Kitely
Min said that animations and scripts are easily transferred, and object import works great. From her experience, Ada reported a few things that don't import so easily: avatar system layers, and attachments. "Prims import really well via xml, except for attachment points. SI borked every attachment I brought in. Disappearing prims, weird stuff." She agreed that objects, animations and scripts generally were more straightforward.

Ilan commented: "Content that is already stored in OpenSim grids should be easy to import to Kitely. So is mesh content, scripts, textures, etc. The problem is getting prim-based content over -- requires Imprudence or Second Inventory and those aren't perfect."

Minethere suggested using Angstrom viewer and importing in .hpa. See https://bitbucket.org/nhede/angstrom2/downloads and http://excelsior-station.wikidot.com/mi ... iewers-miv

Using different viewers for different tasks was mentioned. Ilan mentioned that Justin CC had just updated the list of OpenSim compatible viewers at http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Compatible_Viewers

Sierra complained that importing things was extraordinarily time-consuming -- that it was easier for her to make new content. But ...

Easily accessible content building blocks
She needed "animations, scripts, everything that WORKS in one place! when i get here so i can start building immediately. So far, I've had to search EVERYWHERE--so much time to find the simple stuff i need! and TEXTURES!"

Ilan responded: "Once the marketplace opens you'll have access to more content Sierra, the goal is to get people to add whatever they can to the marketplace so all the components will be there." Sierra wondered if this meant that Kitely wanted just the creators that make the base items -- textures, animations, scripts, sculpts, etc. No, said Ilan; all content creators are welcome. However, those who create components may have an easier time since they don't rely on other people.

In the meantime, there are some basic building blocks on the various Linda Kellie-based sims, for example http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world/Mar ... eebie-Mall. To quickly grab large chunks of content, look for the crates near the entrance of each store. Graham Mills has set up a building supplies world for educators with LK and other creators' items: http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world/Gra ... ls-2/Stuff. Minethere mentioned the new home for Linda Kellie items: http://lkstuff.softpawhost.com/

Specific content needs
Ilan encouraged people to ask for specific items such as skirt-makers or animations or scripts in the Wanted section of the forum: http://www.kitely.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=34 "Adding those things to the forum will help other content creators see that there is demand."

Coco mentioned that Vista Animations was already operating in grids and worlds beyond SL.

Freebie vs. paid-for content
Some expressed concern that the freebies already in existence across the OpenSim metaverse might damage the market for paid-for items. Cider, Minethere, Dundridge and Dot thought not; as Cider said, it's "good, but when you see it everywhere... yeah"

Using Search
The main vehicle for finding inworld content is via the Kitely Public World Search page: http://www.kitely.com/search especially the keyword search box. Unfortunately, not all world owners have added descriptions or even images to their world pages, and so their worlds are languishing unfound. As Ilan said: "I think that once money comes into the equation people will put in more effort on the world pages -- there are still some great worlds out there that have no image and no text in the details"

Dot wondered whether she might offer a (paid-for) service helping to write world page descriptions; Minethere and Ilan thought this a good idea.

Dundridge suggested adding a filter for free vs. original content.

The built-in phpBB forum search is not so great. For example, Sierra hadn't realized that there had been exhaustive discussions on possible ad slogans before her arrival to Kitely (one of her suggestions to the meeting) -- e.g. http://www.kitely.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=306 and http://www.kitely.com/forums/viewtopic. ... t=10#p2171. However, using Google search as an alternative works well.

[Ilan Tochner]

Thank you Dot, as always you did a great job of turning a long unstructured discussion into a well written and clear summary.

[Constance Peregrine]

good summary...my only issue is that my parts in it make me appear to be someone who knows something...WHICH IS TOTALLY UNTRUE!!

If you left in some of my goofy comments that would be more true to form...jus' sayin'...I work hard on this RP ya knowz!!

[Keith Selmes]

Ada commented: "I like soft starts myself.

me too

Dundridge suggested adding a filter for free vs. original content.

I don't fully understand that - something I make and offer free is original content ?
Perhaps it means freebies versus for sale ?
Or possibly distributed free under licence as distinct from made by me ?

[Ilan Tochner]

The Kitely Market doesn't enable giving away items, only selling them.

There is a minimum price of 10 Kitely Credits (which can be bought for about $0.03) or $1 (for items sold for real money).

[Dot Macchi]

Dundridge suggested adding a filter for free vs. original content.

I don't fully understand that - something I make and offer free is original content ?
Perhaps it means freebies versus for sale ?
Or possibly distributed free under licence as distinct from made by me ?

Apologies for the confusion. Dundridge was clearer in the meeting. Note too that the context was Search on the Public World Page.

By "free" in the summary, I meant the free content made available by Linda Kellie and loaded up by many of us here. It tends to swamp search results, making it hard to find more unusual items.

This is not meant to be a criticism of Linda's or others' work or generosity. It is just how things have evolved.

[Keith Selmes]

Thanks Dot, perhaps I should try the search and see what that's all about.

[Sierra Jakob]

good summary...my only issue is that my parts in it make me appear to be someone who knows something...WHICH IS TOTALLY UNTRUE!!

If you left in some of my goofy comments that would be more true to form...jus' sayin'...I work hard on this RP ya knowz!!

Mine, you are everything I wish I was. But clearly I'm not, so let me create a post....

[Constance Peregrine]

good summary...my only issue is that my parts in it make me appear to be someone who knows something...WHICH IS TOTALLY UNTRUE!!

If you left in some of my goofy comments that would be more true to form...jus' sayin'...I work hard on this RP ya knowz!!

Mine, you are everything I wish I was. But clearly I'm not, so let me create a post....

I am? well, truth be told, in rl i am pretty much a recluse and hermit, as much as i can be...vr lets me be some of which i was when i was younger, and some of which i wish i had been-)) one of the wonderful things about it, actually...

create a post??

[Sierra Jakob]

Well, let me try this again. Apparently the first post was lost in space.
I think Kitely could improve the meeting summaries. If the entirety of the conversation is not to be recorded, care might be taken to give a more balanced account of each participant's contribution. All decent ideas that are a direct response to the question asked should be included. Comments or ideas which have been "discussed in the past" should not be excluded from the summary--when an idea has not been implemented, it deserves a revisit. When recounting a contribution, Kitely should avoid using value-laden expressions like "complained". Handling the summaries with these guidelines in mind may assist Kitely to retain and develop the image of inclusiveness which these meeting seem to be designed to foster.

During the meeting Ilan made a direct request for ideas as to what Kitely could do to encourage creators to come to Kitely, create, and contribute to the market. Since the meeting notes for some reason did not document many of the wonderful ideas offered, I would like to document here two practical, easy-to-implement, and--if publicized appropriately--likely to be effective ideas I myself brought up in the meeting. I will take this opportunity to also further explain the ideas.

There are two basic types of creations--1) "raw materials creations" like textures, sculpties, scripts, animations, etc. and 2) creations synthesized from these raw creations--lets call them "synthesized creations".

It is clear that Kitely is having difficulty populating it's marketplace with sufficient items. If Kitely were to consider these "synthesis creators" and pursue making life in Kitely a little easier for them--the marketplace might grow a bit faster.

Here are two of the several undocumented ideas I offered in the meeting (idea #3 is a tag-on):

1) Kitely would do well to offer under the create a "New World" section--the offer of a world tailored to creators, including in-world photo-studios, model posers, and boxes of raw materials--textures, animations, scripts, etc. Recognizing that moving to a new place like Kitely, from a place one is already established--like Second Life--does involve much work. If Kitely were to offer a world as described, Creators would appreciate that Kitely values creators and recognizes their needs. This might go a long way to ease some creator's trepidation about trying to move to Kitely. Implementing this idea would probably require the least effort for Kitely and be the most visible and easy to publicize. However, if I did offer an alternative...

2) As an alternative, Kitely could offer creators newly signed to Kitely, a "creator's gift basket" with so many raw materials all gathered in one place for them. This would be more visible and easy to advertise than the following alternative which I didn't suggest in the meeting, but offer below.

3) Increase significantly the materials being offered in the Kitely library. Most people don't know they have a library or promptly forget it--so this, in my opinion, would be the least effective alternative.