Weefolk category at the KM listings?

[Ramesh Ramloll]

Thanks Ilan, this sounds good.

[Ada Radius]

Ah good point. I have found the Categories and Attributes confusing, and sometimes have a hard time wrapping my head around the thinking that went into them. Not easy from your side nor the merchants' side.

For the Weefolk avatar I set the Category to "Complete Avatars", and for the Weefolk bistro table and chair I set to Furniture. I'll be setting future Weefolk items to Clothing, Furniture, Avatar accessories, whatever. I think the Categories are fine as is for Weefolk.

Attributes is where I think we could use some help, and those lists shift depending on what the item is. Is the Theme list the same for all kinds of items? If so then that's probably where Weefolk should be added.

Hi Ada,

Please look at https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-ne ... ategories/ and note the difference between categories and attributes. If I understand you correctly Weefolk don't just have different avatars but may also have different types of other content, such as Clothing, that relate to them. In other words it seems to me that this should be a value of the Avatar Type attribute and that Avatar Type may also need to be an Attribute of some of the categories we have now that don't currently have that attribute. Did I understand your need correctly?

If that's the case then which Categories / Subcategories do you think the Avatar Attribute should be added to?

[Ada Radius]

Hi Ada,

We're considering a few options for how to add Weefolk to attributes. We'll let you know once we've had more time to consider which option will work best with the categories/attributes design.

[Ada Radius]

We decided to start off by adding Weefolk as an Avatar Type attribute value. This means that it will be applicable to all subcategories of the Avatar Appearance category. Listings in other categories can just add "Weefolk" to the Product Description, Product Name or Variation Name to enable easily finding their Weefolk items using the Kitely Market search function.

If we see that a sufficient number of non Avatar Appearance listings for Weefolk have been created then we'll migrate the attribute value from Avatar Type to Theme in order to make it applicable to almost the entire category tree.

This change will be included in our next system update.

[Snoots Dwagon]

"normal" waist height varies a lot. I got .8636 m (2'10") from the link you gave us in the Weefolk info note card, and rounded it up. Designers need a guideline they can build into their Blender files.

I still have much of the last 2 pages to read but wanted to answer this.

We is tinies. There is no guideline.

Truthfully, tinies are a mixture of varying size and attitude. I have found that the bounding box size of both tinies and dinkies can vary between SL and OpenSim... and even (for some reason) from grid to grid. (I have a suspicion it has to do with the physics engine, but no proof.)

The original Tinies by Wynx and Kage might be considered the "standard" for official Tinies. Official Dinkies tend to be a bit shorter. Bladenkats are different from Dinkies and tinies both.

Since Tinies are basically severely-warped bodies that are covered with prims, the size and design of those prims can vary widely. For example a Dwagon tiny is significantly different in shape from a Wynx Wabbit tiny. Wynx quad Ferret tinies (run around on 4 legs) are different to the point of requiring their own line of clothing. Dinkie clothing will definitely not fit Tinies and vice-versa. I've never see clothing for Bladenkats except that which was borrowed and kludged from "biggies".

When I created the DragonForge Triple-Sit System (a tool designed to properly seat biggies, Tinies and Dinkies of multiple sizes), the two main tricks involved was creating universal animations... and discovering what kind of avatar is sitting on the chair. To do this I had to script-deduce from several body sizes whether we were dealing with a normal-size avatar, a Wynx tiny, a different brand tiny, a Dinkie and a Bladencat... as all of them had different body parameters.

So in short (pun intended) there is no guideline to go by. It seems each creator makes whatever they decide to make. Those who wish to create for specific types of avatars (Wynx tinies or Etheria Dinkies) often purchase Dev Packs to help them do so. One can also purchase the avatar itself and start designing via experiment-- which is how most Wynx Tiny clothing is created.

One of the ancient sayings of the tiny / weefolk community: "Rules? We don' need no steenkeen rules." mwahahahahaha

/riverdances

[Snoots Dwagon]

Okay, now am caught up. Looks like we have two full discussions going on the same forum.

Regarding tiny avatar categories on KM, here is how it's been done in the past (in concept):

PRIMARY CATEGORY: WEEFOLK

SUB-CATEGORIES:
Avatars
Clothing
Homes/Furnishings
Vehicles
Toys
Misc

The most interesting and unique of these is Toys. That is something one doesn't normally see on regular markets... but is intrinsic to Weefolk. In "biggie" areas these might be classified as "gadgets" or "tools" etc, but to Weefolk it's just "Toys"... stuff you use for the fun of it.

Some people may ask: "Shouldn't Avatars be sub-categorized between Dinkies / Tinies / etc etc.?" My answer is no... in my experience people interested in Weefolk tend to be interested in ALL kinds of weefolk. The sellers can make a very clear initial distinction as to what kind of Weefolk avatar is being sold. (Note to Merchants: avoid using "Dinkie" as a term without proper license. When referring to tinies, it's best to use tiny rather than Tiny, which is a brand name.)

When it comes to furnishings and vehicles, if they are for a specific type of avatar they should specifically say so. More creators these days are making compliant furniture and vehicles that automatically discern what kind of Weefolk is using the item, and make adjustments. This is especially true of furniture which increasingly seat both Wynx Tinies and Etheria Dinkies. (Most sellers usually try to comply in general with one of these two main genres for basic compatibility.) One major exception are Asian Chibi... which as might be expected don't conform to anything. Japanime: making the most insane stuff on the planet for 60 years.

So offering a primary WEEFOLK category with the listed subcategories should take care of most needs. I tried to cover the main concepts, but if anyone has additional subcategories to add, now's likely the time and place.

[Alexina Proctor]

Hi Snoots,

Please read how Kitely Market attributes and categories work. Most virtual world marketplaces don't have attributes so they are forced to create category trees that have the same subcategories appearing multiple times in different parts of the tree. This creates issues when the same object could fit in multiple places in the category tree, which makes it hard for merchants to decide where to list things and makes it hard for buyers to see all the relevant content. To avoid this problem, we've designed Kitely Market to organize content like the big online Marketplaces (Amazon, Walmart, etc.) organize their own marketplaces. The way they do so enables you to navigate categories and use multiple attributes to fine tune your search. As those companies do a lot of research on buyer preferences and maximizing sales, opting to follow the same organizational strategy that RL marketplaces use is likely to be a better option for Kitely Market than trying to emulate how SL Marketplace does it.

[Alexina Proctor]

Today's system update included the two aforementioned change requests:

The first change is that we added support for Weefolk. The Weefolk community use very small avatars (human shaped and otherwise). Now, when you create a product in the Avatar Appearance category, you can set its Avatar Type attribute to Weefolk.

image.png (16.73 KiB) Viewed 3932 times

If we see that there are a sufficient number of Weefolk items added to other categories (and tagged Weefolk in their product description, product name or variation name) then we'll consider how to apply this attribute value in other categories.

The second change is that we moved the category "Information Management", which was formerly under "Gadgets", to "Business Tools". This reflects its purpose better.

[Alexina Proctor]

Thank you very much, Ilan. We greatly appreciate Kitely’s support of the growing Weefolk community.

[Ada Radius]

OK, but now you is confuxing me. When I first arrived at Weefolk, you told me my little cat avatar was too big to live there. Now I've built lil critter I know is little enough. But. How big is too big? How little is little enough?

"normal" waist height varies a lot. I got .8636 m (2'10") from the link you gave us in the Weefolk info note card, and rounded it up. Designers need a guideline they can build into their Blender files.

I still have much of the last 2 pages to read but wanted to answer this.

We is tinies. There is no guideline.

Truthfully, tinies are a mixture of varying size and attitude. I have found that the bounding box size of both tinies and dinkies can vary between SL and OpenSim... and even (for some reason) from grid to grid. (I have a suspicion it has to do with the physics engine, but no proof.)

The original Tinies by Wynx and Kage might be considered the "standard" for official Tinies. Official Dinkies tend to be a bit shorter. Bladenkats are different from Dinkies and tinies both.

Since Tinies are basically severely-warped bodies that are covered with prims, the size and design of those prims can vary widely. For example a Dwagon tiny is significantly different in shape from a Wynx Wabbit tiny. Wynx quad Ferret tinies (run around on 4 legs) are different to the point of requiring their own line of clothing. Dinkie clothing will definitely not fit Tinies and vice-versa. I've never see clothing for Bladenkats except that which was borrowed and kludged from "biggies".

When I created the DragonForge Triple-Sit System (a tool designed to properly seat biggies, Tinies and Dinkies of multiple sizes), the two main tricks involved was creating universal animations... and discovering what kind of avatar is sitting on the chair. To do this I had to script-deduce from several body sizes whether we were dealing with a normal-size avatar, a Wynx tiny, a different brand tiny, a Dinkie and a Bladencat... as all of them had different body parameters.

So in short (pun intended) there is no guideline to go by. It seems each creator makes whatever they decide to make. Those who wish to create for specific types of avatars (Wynx tinies or Etheria Dinkies) often purchase Dev Packs to help them do so. One can also purchase the avatar itself and start designing via experiment-- which is how most Wynx Tiny clothing is created.

One of the ancient sayings of the tiny / weefolk community: "Rules? We don' need no steenkeen rules." mwahahahahaha

/riverdances