Welcome Center: Optimum size?

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Dot Mac
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Welcome Center: Optimum size?

Post by Dot Mac » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:06 am

The format of the center seems to be crystallising around the idea of a zen garden with modern museum architecture:
Ilan Tochner wrote:In any case, my vision ... would be for something which is a zen garden i.e. mostly outdoors and has status/points of interest that convey some idea that may be relevant to some people and just pretty to others. ... this would have a few buildings that use modern museum architecture (big and spacious - possibly no roof) with most of the area being outdoors in winding paths meticulously organized around the landscape (with art / genre elements as status strategically placed on the path to convey some vibe to the traveler). A place you could take an afternoon and stroll in ...
The functions it needs to provide are fewer than the Kitely Plaza (a 2x2 megaregion): Given this, it might be worth thinking carefully about optimum world size: What are your thoughts for/against each size?

====
Edited to add link to A Welcome Plaza, which was unavailable at the time of first posting.
Last edited by Dot Mac on Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Welcome Center: Optimum size?

Post by Constance Peregrine » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:41 am

If it is not a mega, of ANY size, then a prime selling point that differentiates Kitely from other commercial grids will be missed...not only using one, but pointing this out clearly.

I am not sure why some folx do not seem to see this is so needed, possibly not reading places I have where people from other commercial grids have posted that megas are a kludge, and their way is the better way [single regions with better crossings].

I can supply one link if requested where this was said.

Ilan has already stated using a simulator with up to 9 regions would be acceptable, there is no reason to NOT do this as a mega and spread out all sorts of nice places, using mostly water even [and even creating nice underwater builds]....otherwise this will be the same old same old in all practicality.

Several grids have decent Welcome Regions, Kitely has the ability to set itself apart with the megas and with the OARs abilities, smart money should go to marketing this by showing it clearly.

Overlook this if you feel ya gotta [not "ya" as in to a specific person], but it does a disservice to Kitely, imo.
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Re: Welcome Center: Optimum size?

Post by Dot Mac » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:40 am

Thanks, Minethere. You make an eloquent argument for using a megaregion.

If that is accepted as a given, the choice is then between a 2x2 and a 3x3.

If I can play devil's advocate for a moment, one potential issue with using a megaregion might be the time it takes to get from one place to another without using teleports or warps (i.e. walking, running or flying). I was noticing this myself when visiting the example 2x2 Welcome Plaza that Sierra so kindly was roughing out.

That has implications for layout.

One counterargument against using a megaregion is the charge levelled at most OpenSim grids: that they are mostly empty space, built on or not. A megaregion Welcome Center empty of visitors might reinforce that impression.

We need to thoroughly discuss all the issues before deciding on one or the other, because we've got to get this right.

The aim is to try to reach consensus, so everyone's views -- for or against -- need to be heard. So whether you agree or disagree, do speak up!
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Re: Welcome Center: Optimum size?

Post by Constance Peregrine » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:59 am

Here is the article link I mentioned in reference to the "kludge" comment. One might keep in mind that if said in one place, it is likely said in others.

One of the aspects of marketing is repeating a message, and if the message is disingenuous, or not the truth, or misinformation, then it is often accepted as being truth, simply because it is said so often.

It is a continuous battle putting the truth out there-))

http://slnewser.blogspot.com/2013/05/ne ... orldz.html

As to the oft-complaint of not many folx being around, I do not see this as changing, nothing much can be done about it anyways, so I never concern myself with such things, personally.

You folx concentrating on doing an awesome build, with the tools Kitely gives us with OARs and a stable grid using stable OS code and people will go "wowzers" and come look.

People who complain about the lack of ppl are comparing other grids to SL, which should not even be a consideration at all here....no other grid will have those numbers, so why bother??

The Zen Gardens Idea, interspersed with information about why kitely is different, noting the major differences and nice gates to other places, is the way to go.

Using the talents of people who are in this grid, already, is also a good idea.

Anywho...have fun-))
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Re: Welcome Center: Optimum size?

Post by Katherine Pryde » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:15 pm

Minethere Always wrote:Here is the article link I mentioned in reference to the "kludge" comment. One might keep in mind that if said in one place, it is likely said in others.

One of the aspects of marketing is repeating a message, and if the message is disingenuous, or not the truth, or misinformation, then it is often accepted as being truth, simply because it is said so often.

It is a continuous battle putting the truth out there-))

http://slnewser.blogspot.com/2013/05/ne ... orldz.html

As to the oft-complaint of not many folx being around, I do not see this as changing, nothing much can be done about it anyways, so I never concern myself with such things, personally.

You folx concentrating on doing an awesome build, with the tools Kitely gives us with OARs and a stable grid using stable OS code and people will go "wowzers" and come look.

People who complain about the lack of ppl are comparing other grids to SL, which should not even be a consideration at all here....no other grid will have those numbers, so why bother??

The Zen Gardens Idea, interspersed with information about why kitely is different, noting the major differences and nice gates to other places, is the way to go.

Using the talents of people who are in this grid, already, is also a good idea.

Anywho...have fun-))
Agree and to add most kitely new users are already very familiar with SL & OS so the travel distance will not be much concern

Dot wrote

Given this, it might be worth thinking carefully about optimum world size:
•single region, e.g. Virtually Human
•2x2 megaregion, e.g. Ruminations (work in progress), or A Welcome Plaza (prototype by Sierra)
•3x3 megaregion, e.g. Sri Isodhyana Online

" Isodhyana has had mega region mode off last few days to add in terrain files so going to those regions will not show a true advantage as sim borders are up'

Jim Wrote http://slnewser.blogspot.com/2013/05/ne ... orldz.html
InWorldz went it's own way and focused on stabilizing the foundation, instead of adding band-aids like megaregions to avoid having to fix the real problems.

'That comment just shows they underestimate kitely or want to downplay mega regions as a impractical idea but strangely they have rejected any kind of real continent in that grid that could take advantage of those region crossing breakthrough they claim,
I do not see grids like that who try to mimic SL lasting much longer as it has been tried & failed for many years in OS and truly is a bad business model to invest so much time & resources then become cornered due to lack of flexability in the business model,
Most people are seeing the light as avination plans to open HG & other grids as well they see a change coming soon so grids like kitely will be at the cutting edge as OS evolves into it's futare
Kitely's Free limited time regions with inexpensive payment options to upgrade and back to main point that with no border crossings it is useful to 90% or more of residents.

I think no sim borders is a great selling point but also the information regarding how to terraform & modify a mega region
even more important because land tools do not work well in mega regions
it will be frustrating to new residents not being able to shape right away the dream land they want,
So it must be a very informative learning center at KWC also I believe threads here sould be revised to help highlight needed info as well,

I also have a idea that when someone creates a new world they would get automatically inworld a Kitely Welcome Packet {KWP} with Landmarks to KWC and notecards to help clear very important questions that might arise also with links to forums,
Maybe this could be done in such a way it is only sent by system when they open a first world not every time they create a new one ,

Just food for thoughts
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Re: Welcome Center: Optimum size?

Post by Constance Peregrine » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:32 pm

Yes, and to be fair, Jim is paid by inwz, which tends to make a person focus on what puts bread on their tables, often to blinding themselves from reality. Nothing essentially wrong with that, it's human nature.

But, as you read my comments in that blog, I wanted to expand upon that comment, and others, because, as you see there, others chime in with disinformation and, really, I simply cannot stand disinformation. [in fact, my first website on the net, with geocities, was called "Disinformation" lol..not me giving it but showing sites and stuff who gave it out]

In any case, I wish more would recognize this essential "battle" for want of a better word, that is being waged not only against some grids, but *for* others, that only makes getting accurate info "out there" more important and muddies the waters for us all.

My only desire is to see Kitely showcase those things that set it apart...heck, if it was my grid [god forbid!!] I would use a 16 region mega for the Welcome area...showcasing the top of the line offering here...and I can imagine folx flying all over with no rubberbanding saying such things like "omg omg omg omg omg!!!"

But mega usage here and OARs [with the export reports] are the critical differences than the sl clones concerning commercial grids...and, as well, free opensim folx who are watching, especially with the pricing here, are used to using megas all the time.
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Re: Welcome Center: Optimum size?

Post by Sarge Misfit » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:17 pm

Dot Macchi wrote: ..., one potential issue with using a megaregion might be the time it takes to get from one place to another without using teleports or warps (i.e. walking, running or flying). ...
This can be taken advantage of. Put in place a tram for people to simply hop on to get to where they are going. Gives the opportunity to add scenic things. In fact, Kitely could hold events/contests with the winning builds being featured. Even use more than one tramline. Say a steampunk version and something like Heinlein's slideways. Individual travelpods in tubeways. Good old fashioned steam engines. And why not go very old school with an ox and cart? Okay, so maybe horse and buggy :-)

Edited to add: You know, having roads along with tramlines would give creators the opportunity to set out freebie vehicles as well as giving people the chance to give them a try.
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Re: Welcome Center: Optimum size?

Post by Ada Radius » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:39 pm

As I'm absorbing the opinions on this:
The arguments for one sim are that it's easier to negotiate and navigate. The default view distances don't allow most people to see beyond 256m anyway. We got to keep viewer side lag down, as many new people are using much smaller devices and expecting to be able to do everything with them. yada.
OTOH
Miney's point carries, I think. The megaregions rock. My 4 year old granddaughter "got it" before I did. More space to fly around and look at stuff is better than less space.

One cool thing about a traditional zen garden, is that you can't see the whole thing at once from any one viewpoint, and that, in odd ways, is relaxing without being boring. I built a tiny one in SL in yikes 2007 I think, for a friend, and was fascinated by the visual philosophy. Once the overall layout is figured out - in a traditional one the empty space has a branch or treelike shape - then it does not take long to put it together, and limit textures. It is, however, not easy at first to focus on the empty space. Getting it right is a process, not something that can ever be done. Nice idea, Ilan :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_rock_garden

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Re: Welcome Center: Optimum size?

Post by Constance Peregrine » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:42 pm

I actually like this concept a lot Sarge...even adding maybe doing trams to some spots, horse and buggies to others...etc

Leaving room to walk of course...separately or beside that.
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Re: Welcome Center: Optimum size?

Post by Sarge Misfit » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:07 pm

Minethere Always wrote:I actually like this concept a lot Sarge...even adding maybe doing trams to some spots, horse and buggies to others...etc

Leaving room to walk of course...separately or beside that.
Oh, definitely ensure that people can walk about. Though I think paralleling the different types of transportation is better. Gives people choice. :-)

I'll import a segment of that roadway you like, Miney, and will put it someplace for people to check it out and take a copy of if they want. It has sidewalks as well as road and it is rather easy to setup.
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