viewers crash on teleport between worlds

[Serendipity Seraph]

Every single time I teleport from Fulfillment University world to Fulfillment world both the Firestorm and Singularity viewers crash. I am on a Mac with plenty of memory, good graphics, good bandwidth. Both worlds are fine when entered from scratch.

Ideas? Known area with some problems?

[Serendipity Seraph]

Going from Fulfillment to Fulfillment University works fine. The latter is a Universal Campus and these seem to run slow everywhere I have tried them (Kitely, OSGrid, standalone). The latter two were on a very beefy dedicated server with 500Mbps. On all arrangements basic fps hovers around 3 fps while server and physics fps is fine. The campus is very pretty but has a lot of prims. That slow fps causes some blocky and awkward walking and movement.

I am wondering if the low fps has something to do with the problem. Any hints or ways that campus can be run faster would also be appreciated. It is a pretty build.

[Serendipity Seraph]

I also notice on the campus in particular but also in general that fps goes up a lot if I am facing out to ocean or relatively empty space and falls quickly if I turn to a denser part of the build even if I have already looked at it in same session. I don't know enough about how OpenSim and-or viewers work but shouldn't they have cached a lot of the detail of the more complex part of the scene when I first looked at it? It seem odd nearly the same level of difference depending on scene complexity keeps completing.

IIRC correctly the campus is around 48000 prims. Since Kitely advertises 100,000 I am a bit worried by this experience.

[Ilan Tochner]

Hi Serendipity,

Viewer FPS depends on how much work your viewer needs to do to render the currently viewed terrain, objects and effects. Server FPS and Physics FPS depend on how much work the server needs to do to support running the simulation. When Viewer FPS is low and Server/Physics FPS is high the problem is with your computer having a hard time displaying the scene (the server isn't having a problem supporting the load). When you turn to face the ocean the viewer has a lot less things it needs to display and therefore can do so a lot faster, therefore resulting in more Frames Per Second (FPS). If you had a faster graphics card then you'd get higher Viewer FPS.

Viewer crashes when teleporting between worlds are usually the result of not having enough memory. The Viewer is, unfortunately, not very intelligent in how it manages memory and doesn't release memory required for rendering the previous world before trying to allocate memory to enter the current world you're entering. Viewers are a lot less likely to crash when teleporting between worlds when your computer has more memory. Another thing that can help is using Nvidia-based graphics cards as opposed to ones made by AMD. The AMD OpenGL graphics drivers are not as stable as those of Nvidia. In any case I'd recommend updating your graphics driver to the latest version.

[Jean Swashbuckler]

I am on a Mac with plenty of memory, good graphics, good bandwidth.

Hi Serendipity, Mac also and I'll be happy to check on mine. Which Mac OS are you on?

[update] I teleported easily between both campus worlds. I also teleported out to Ami's world, and back to Fullfillment making sure to teleport to both worlds. I also teleported out to our world and back to both campuses. I had no crashes or issues. I did reach the Kitely transfer station going into Fullfillment the first time. Llan and Oren, thought that was a nice touch vs. my experience in SL.

I'm on a MBP, running Mavericks and was in the Firestorm beta. I'll try later on my older Mac desktop.

For what it is worth, I was getting roughly the same FPS as I see in the better built regions of SL. No lag but the FPS was in the 10-18 range. This scene is a very complex build with a lot of data sent to you as you move.

Illan, you comment in the thread on viewer memory management makes sense. I thought that might be the case but never looked into it.

[Serendipity Seraph]

Interesting and very curious.

I am on a Mac Pro running Lion (it is an older model and cannot run Mountain Lion). 16 GB of memory. ATI Radeon HD 4870 512 MB graphics. At the time of the issue over 5GB memory were free. Should be more than adequate.

My home network is 30 mbps down and 10 mbps up. So I am stumped.

Don't you hate an "it works for me" vs "well, it doesn't work for me" situation.

I am on a Mac with plenty of memory, good graphics, good bandwidth.

Hi Serendipity, Mac also and I'll be happy to check on mine. Which Mac OS are you on?

[update] I teleported easily between both campus worlds. I also teleported out to Ami's world, and back to Fullfillment making sure to teleport to both worlds. I also teleported out to our world and back to both campuses. I had no crashes or issues. I did reach the Kitely transfer station going into Fullfillment the first time. Llan and Oren, thought that was a nice touch vs. my experience in SL.

I'm on a MBP, running Mavericks and was in the Firestorm beta. I'll try later on my older Mac desktop.

For what it is worth, I was getting roughly the same FPS as I see in the better built regions of SL. No lag but the FPS was in the 10-18 range. This scene is a very complex build with a lot of data sent to you as you move.

Illan, you comment in the thread on viewer memory management makes sense. I thought that might be the case but never looked into it.

[Serendipity Seraph]

Hi Serendipity,

Oren recently switched from an AMD-based graphics card to an Nvidia-based one and had the similar world-TP-related crashes he previously experienced stop occurring. Given your powerful computer, my guess would be that the crashes are due to the AMD graphics drivers you're using. An updated driver version may help or (if you can afford it) switching to an Nvidia-based card (their OpenGL support is much better than AMD's).

[Jean Swashbuckler]

I am on a Mac Pro running Lion (it is an older model and cannot run Mountain Lion). 16 GB of memory. ATI Radeon HD 4870 512 MB graphics. At the time of the issue over 5GB memory were free. Should be more than adequate.

I also have an early 2008 MacPro with an Nvidia GeForce 8800GTS card, 5gb, running Snow Leopard. I can't run do a test now but will do one later tonight or first thing early in the morning. Will repeat what I did earlier today.

[Serendipity Seraph]

Hi Serendipity,

Oren recently switched from an AMD-based graphics card to an Nvidia-based one and had the similar world-TP-related crashes he previously experienced stop occurring. Given your powerful computer, my guess would be that the crashes are due to the AMD graphics drivers you're using. An updated driver version may help or (if you can afford it) switching to an Nvidia-based card (their OpenGL support is much better than AMD's).

Agreed. I just ran an experiment. I have a Macbook Pro that has NVIDIA graphics. It is an older model and the GPU is not *that* powerful but hey. To make life more interesting, and since I converted the box to all Linux some time ago, I ran a Singularity Viewer on linux. I know that will crash eventually but guess what. It did not crash on the TP in question. It stopped dead as far as being able to move my avatar or the scene loading for a second or so but then it caught up with itself. So NVIDIA for the win. Good to know.

My Mac Pro is a 2006 1,1. I have stuffed everything in it its architecture can stand (its PCI is 32 rather than 64 bit). The one NVIDIA card for it would be a downgrade. So decisions decisions. I saw a 2009 Mac Pro with better and NVIDIA graphics built in used but checked out by people I trust for reasonably cheap. Or maybe that really chunky Linux desktop I have had my eye on. Which brings up another question.

Is there a good dependable TPV3 viewer on 64 bit (preferred) Linux yet? The ones I tried mumble something about a pipe not being in a happy state and crash.

[Deuce Halsey]

With all the AMD bashing going on in this thread I thought I'd show them a little love to make up for it. My current desktop is a Dell PC that's about 2.5 years old.
It has an AMD Phenom II X6 1055T CPU (6 cores running at 3.3 GHz with built-in graphics support) running in conjunction with an AMD Radeon HD 6670 video card.
It has Windows 7 Professional and I use Firestorm for OpenSim to access Kitely.

This machine is far and away the most solid and dependable personal computer I have ever used. I'm no fan of Windows by any means, but I was forced to use it
professionally for at least 20 years and it's what I'm used to dealing with and trained to use. This AMD system beats any of the Intel-processor boxes I've used over
the years, several of which had NVidia graphics cards. I plan to run this machine as long as I can and when the time comes I will replace it with another AMD
processor box.

BTW, I ran my own test visiting the Fulfillment worlds earlier tonight. Except for a bit of severe lag on first arrival as all those prims loaded, I was able to move
between the two worlds without any problem. So AMD graphics cards can get the job done if they are loaded with enough power. I purposely got a high end machine
with supercharged graphics capability to handle SL and the online games I play. This machine has done a bang up job in that area.

Thus ends the AMD commercial, and we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...