Permissions not working properly

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Frank Vincent
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Permissions not working properly

Post by Frank Vincent » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:44 am

I have double and triple checked the permissions on the objects in question and they are copy/modify.

So I created an alt as I needed to create a group for rentals and I couldn't guarantee that anybody within the 48hr limit, though I would have created an alt eventually as I like one account per role-play character to keep the inventory organized. Anyway I digress.

I transferred a folder of my creations to my alt, but on receipt the permissions were not as they should be on all the items. Scripts were all fine, though I didn't actually need to transfer these, they just happened to be in the folder. Objects on the other hand arrived with no copy permissions on some of the objects. On others, the permissions were correct, but only 2 out of 7 had the correct permissions on objects.

Just to eliminate that the problem was transferring an entire folder, I tried transferring a single object, one of the ones which had the incorrect permissions when sent before, but the same thing happened.

I've tried logging out and logging in again. I've tried clearing the alts inventory cache and restarting, neither made any difference.

My major concern is that the first folder I tried it with, is one that is on the Kitely market and I'm concerned that if somebody buys my product, they will have these permission issues. Though the marketplace shows the permissions correctly.

Is there anything else I need to check, all the scripts inside the objects definitely have copy permissions.

Any help appreciated.
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Ilan Tochner
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Ilan Tochner
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Re: Permissions not working properly

Post by Ilan Tochner » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:16 am

Hi Frank,

Please make sure to only change permissions on rezzed objects. Changing permissions on inventory items (or on objects contained in other objects) doesn't cause changes to take place immediately which can result in permissions changing once they are rezzed (this is because of Slam Bits, see: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Debug_Permissions).

Next, if you want to give other people objects you have to make sure that their Next Owner permissions are set to what you'd like those objects to have once they've been given to the other people (the Owner Permissions of items that are owned by you only apply to you).

Finally, the permissions you see inside Kitely Market are the Next Owner permissions the items had in your inventory before they were added to the product listing. You can test those out using the Test Delivery function in your product listing's Edit page. You may also find this helpful: https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-ne ... -products/
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Re: Permissions not working properly

Post by Frank Vincent » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:09 am

Ilan Tochner wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:16 am
Hi Frank,

Please make sure to only change permissions on rezzed objects. Changing permissions on inventory items (or on objects contained in other objects) doesn't cause changes to take place immediately which can result in permissions changing once they are rezzed (this is because of Slam Bits, see: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Debug_Permissions).

Next, if you want to give other people objects you have to make sure that their Next Owner permissions are set to what you'd like those objects to have once they've been given to the other people (the Owner Permissions of items that are owned by you only apply to you).

Finally, the permissions you see inside Kitely Market are the Next Owner permissions the items had in your inventory before they were added to the product listing. You can test those out using the Test Delivery function in your product listing's Edit page. You may also find this helpful: https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-ne ... -products/

Hi ty for your usual quick response, I am actually already aware of next owner permissions and how they differ from owner permissions and it was the next owner permissions I was referring to. I have default options setup in the viewer for next owner permissions, so the permissions were set when the objects were uploaded or created, maybe that doesn't work in Kitely. I will try rezzing the objects in world and setting the next owner permissions again and see if that resolves the issue.

I've tried the test delivery button on the marketplace item and the objects arrive with the correct next owner permissions, however, does that not demonstrate that the next owner permissions are set correct on that folder's items and therefore when I sent a copy of that same folder to my alt, the next owner permissions should have been correct for that avatar?

I will make a copy of the folder and rez the objects in world and set the permissions again and see what happens when I transfer them after, but I don't get why the very same folder delivers from the market without next owner permissions issues. if there is an issue with the way next owner permissions are set.

Thank you again for your fast response.
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Re: Permissions not working properly

Post by Ilan Tochner » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:26 am

Kitely Market reads the permissions as they appear in your inventory at the time they are added to the marketplace listing. This means that any Slam Bit that may be in place and will result in permissions being changed upon rezzing will not be taken into consideration. In other words, Kitely Market product listings Variation Items table display the the Next Owner permissions that existed during the time the items were added to the marketplace and those will be the permissions the items will be delivered with; any Slam Bit (i.e. delayed changes) that existed in the inventory before the products were added to the marketplace listing will be discarded.

OpenSim and Second Life, on the other hand, use the Slam Bit mechanism to delay applying changes to permissions made while the items are in inventory. This means that what you see in your inventory may not be the actual permissions the items will have once they are rezzed. This isn't a Kitely issue, it's how Linden Lab designed it.
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Re: Permissions not working properly

Post by Frank Vincent » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:07 am

Ilan Tochner wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:26 am
Kitely Market reads the permissions as they appear in your inventory at the time they are added to the marketplace listing. This means that any Slam Bit that may be in place and will result in permissions being changed upon rezzing will not be taken into consideration. In other words, Kitely Market product listings Variation Items table display the the Next Owner permissions that existed during the time the items were added to the marketplace and those will be the permissions the items will be delivered with; any Slam Bit (i.e. delayed changes) that existed in the inventory before the products were added to the marketplace listing will be discarded.

OpenSim and Second Life, on the other hand, use the Slam Bit mechanism to delay applying changes to permissions made while the items are in inventory. This means that what you see in your inventory may not be the actual permissions the items will have once they are rezzed. This isn't a Kitely issue, it's how Linden Lab designed it.
Hi thanks again, I sincerely hope you didn't think I meant any offence in my previous comment as that wasn't my intention, I only said maybe Kitely doesn't work that way because I use default permissions in the viewer for Second Life too and have no memory of ever having issues transferring items to my alts, I wasn't trying to suggest in any way that Kitely was inferior or anything like that, in fact, your market is superior to the linden lab offering in the way it works.

Anyway, I did as per your suggestion and rezzed the items in world, even though when rezzed they had the correct next owner permissions, I unticked and reticked the appropriate boxes, took them back into my inventory and hey presto everything worked fine. I have zero idea why I have never come across this issue in Second Life, I have no doubt from what you say that the permissions work the same, but I guess I've just been lucky, or maybe my memory of the early days just isn't serving me so well, it's been 10 years after all lol

Anyway many thanks for your help again.
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Re: Permissions not working properly

Post by Ilan Tochner » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:26 am

Great, and no offense taken. We're always open to questions :-)
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