Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Building using prims, sculpties and meshes. Texture creation techniques.
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Selby Evans
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Re: Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Post by Selby Evans »

Tess -- the overload was caused by other software running on the machine -- He had 5 fps--way too low for good performance. He had no problems after shifting to another machine.
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Re: Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Post by Tess Juel »

Selby Evans wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:19 pm
Tess -- the overload was caused by other software running on the machine
Oh, ok. Case solved then.

It doesn't explain the glitches I had there of course but I haven't been able to reproduce any of them even though I spent several hours there yesterday so if there are no other problem I guess we can write them off as just normal virtual world SNAFU.
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Signature Safety
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Re: Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Post by Signature Safety »

As Selby stated, I only had the issue yesterday when on a computer that was very overloaded with network software while also running MS Teams and sharing screens to show the world to someone else in our company.

Today, on a "cleaner" computer 50+ fps, and 0% lag indicated, I had the issue return, and now with multiple objects in the immediate area (mesh and prim).

As I zoom closer in these pics you can see portions of the truck (mesh), sections of scaffolding components on truck bed (prim), and workers on scaffold (mesh) disappear from view.

I will copy these objects to another area of the world to see if it can be replicated.

For now, this is the only area where I am having this issue.
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Snoots Dwagon
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Re: Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

I have experienced this several times. The viewer was the only app I was actively using. I have an i5 quad core 3.8g, SSD hard drives, 8 gigs RAM, Geforce 1050 graphics card with 2 gigs dedicated RAM. My guess: Viewer cache issues: the system not recognizing what items have been loaded or not loaded... and the transfer system failing to recognize when a texture load fails (at least in part). Why an item appears when further away and then not up closer... I can only guess as core viewer graphics issues. Not being a deep tech, all I can comment on is what is observable.
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Ilan Tochner
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Re: Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Post by Ilan Tochner »

Have you tried clearing the viewer cache and the viewer inventory cache, restarting the viewer and then reentering the world?
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Tess Juel
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Re: Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Post by Tess Juel »

Snoots Dwagon wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:40 pm
I have experienced this several times.
Do you have any huge inksets in your build, Snoots?

Signature sent me a copy of the content and when I rezzed it in the Merchants Sandbox, I got all the problems with parts of the truck not rendering and prims disappearing when I zoomed in on them. The issues with the truck vanished when I moved it away from the rest of the content though so I think it's quite clear which object is guilty, it's all those prims loaded on the truck's flatbed.

It's a single linkset with more than 1,100 prims. I suspect it's the sheer number of parts in the linkset, probably combined with the fairly high tri count for prims (most of them are hollow cylinders), that is the cause. It's a strange behaviour but we have to remember that the viewer is made for SL where the number of parts in a linkset is limited to 255. We're asking it to do something it was never meant to do here so it makes sense that we should expect the unexpected.

Edit: I did a quick test linking 2048 toruses (kids, don't try this at home!!!) and got a similar effect. Notice how some of them only show up as outlines:
2048 toruses.jpg
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As soon as I unlinked them, they all rendered just fine. They killed my fps of course but that is only to be expected.
(Oh, and Ilan, don't worry, those toruses were phantom. I may be crazy but I'm not insane. ;) )
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Re: Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

Tess Juel wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:25 pm
Do you have any huge inksets in your build, Snoots?
I a dwagon. Of course I haz huge linkets in my builds. Bwaahahahahahaa..., :twisted:

One of my builds i just under 1,000 prims, all linked. However, others of my builds may be only 5 prims. In my experience, this happens regardless of the number of items linked. Of course, if you have a large linkset and the graphics card isn't up to it... it makes sense that only part of the object would rez. But if you have a good graphics card, so long as there aren't a zillion textures on the build it should all rez.

That's something for builders to be aware of: it's not so much the number of linked prims, it's the type and number of textures. Now of course, if one is building and tries to link 3,000 prims together... that is going to be a unique and interesting experience of being frozen in place and unable to even move your camera while that object is linking. You'll probably be okay once the link is done, but while it's linking well... these systems weren't meant to link 3,000 items.

But I have several times linked 500 to 1000 prims without difficulty (save for the time it takes to link). But if those prims have lots of textures, ow that is going to be a problem. Or if they contain numerous sculpties (SCULPTIES BAAAD)... or meshes (which may or may not be worse, depending on the mesh), then of course that object is going to be far more difficult.

I have seemed to notice this problem increasing recently, across the hypergrid. Did Microsoft do something in Windows? Did someone make an update in the Viewer that causes prims to not rez? Since these virtual worlds work using three or four (or more) programs, each of which is necessary to make the world work... it can be very difficult to determine what is responsible for a failure. I will admit that personally, this whole "fail to rez" issue (whether it's a prim or a 2-D texture) has been a pet peeve of mine since the very foundation of SL. Fortunately, Oren and Beth did a great deal in helping 2D textures rez better now in Firestorm-- but even that problem isn't totally fixed.

The reality is that LL borked 2D texture loading when they wrote the code.... and it still hasn't been completely fixed, even after all these years. And as all dwagons know: if the 2D don't work, the 3D don't work.
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Tess Juel
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Re: Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Post by Tess Juel »

Snoots Dwagon wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:56 pm
In my experience, this happens regardless of the number of items linked.
There's one thing I forgot to mention: the truck was not linked to the prims but it was still affected. So a huge linkset can not only cause render problems for the linkset itself but also for other objects that are nearby.
Of course, if you have a large linkset and the graphics card isn't up to it... it makes sense that only part of the object would rez. But if you have a good graphics card, so long as there aren't a zillion textures on the build it should all rez.
That has nothing to do with it. If you unlink, the problem goes away even though the number of prims, tris and textures in the scene don't change.

There is definitely something funny about the way SL and opensim handle linksets. There must be a reason why LL decided to limit them to 255 part (and it's not because they wanted to stick to 8 bit adressing). Philip Rosedale actually once said that the way linksets are done was the biggest mistake when they created SL.

Oh, and a while ago TAG announced they had upgraded their version of opensim to multithreaded linkset delivery to solve some rendring issues. I don't know any details though and as far as I know they've never published any of their patches to the os code.
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Re: Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Post by Signature Safety »

Thank you everyone for your comments and questions.
I considered and did all you suggested, and the issue still was present.
I believe I have solved the issue.
The flatbed truck with all of the scaffold components had a land impact of over 1200.
I have no idea how many faces and individual object are in this mix.
So I eliminated the stack of scaffold lock wedges (158 individual prims) and created a simplified version composed of 1 rectangular box (textured to appear as a stack of objects) and added 18 individual wedges interspersed to the single prim.
Immediately, the render issue was no longer an issue.
I can only guess that this was too many items, textures, cylinders, etc. mixed in a close proximity and difficult to render.
Especially in light of the fact that this is the only area in this world where this issue occurred.
Below is a picture showing the original and remodeled stacks.
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Re: Objects disappear as zoom closer.

Post by Signature Safety »

Tess Juel wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:25 pm

I may be crazy but I'm not insane. ;) )


Insane is that when I first saw the screenshot, I thought this was an amazing number of doughnuts, and was pondering how much coffee I needed to brew.
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