Allowing export

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Handy Low
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Allowing export

Post by Handy Low »

I'd like to allow export of my items (mostly scripts), but I'm a bit confused by how it's all supposed to work. Some questions:

1. It seems fair to have different prices for export and non-export versions, and I know some merchants are doing this. Do I need to list the same items twice with different perms and prices in order to achieve this?

2. I gather there's going to be a Hypergrid delivery system coming soon, but in the meantime - if I allow my scripts to be exported, will assets (textures and sounds, referenced in the scripts by UUID) be handled currently?

3. Most of my systems have two parts - a kind of "development" script that the builder uses to set the thing up, and a "runtime" that the builder includes in the items they sell. Should I have a version with only the runtime exportable?

4. Am I right that there's nothing I can do to stop someone buying an export version and then loading the OAR onto their private grid to access the scripts' source code? Is this just a risk I should take?

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Re: Allowing export

Post by Dundridge Dreadlow »

You don't need to load the oar onto a private grid to get the script, you can open it in notepad directly from the oar, as with the textures. Assets are correctly handled - which is impressive in it's own right, they are re-uploaded with the original asset UUID - and SOME of the metadata with the script persists with OARs. Hypergrid as far as I know uses very similar technology to oars for moving stuff around, but the market does some tricks of it's own. It has been mentioned that there will in the future be an option to only allow export to secure grids in the future.

There are distinct camps for permissions here - there are a LOT of open source people in Kitely and those that will say there is little point protecting objects and textures, if they are going to be copied eventually might as well make money from them. Scripts are the one thing that cannot easily be copied, which puts us scripting people in a very different situation to other creators and at much greater risk. I personally am VERY uncomfortable about allowing complex scripts for export.
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Re: Allowing export

Post by Ozwell Wayfarer »

Dundridge Dreadlow wrote: Scripts are the one thing that cannot easily be copied, which puts us scripting people in a very different situation to other creators and at much greater risk. I personally am VERY uncomfortable about allowing complex scripts for export.
I am not much of a scripter, but your sentiment is echoed by many that I talk to, and I sadly foresee that this will be a major hurdle preventing high quality scripted items appearing for export. Of course, I am sure some wont mind, but they will be a very small minority.

Handy - perms are best handled through product variations. I have 3 general perm categories, C/M, CM/T and C/M/E.
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Re: Allowing export

Post by Dot Matrix »

Is it possible to enable just the runtime portion to be exported, the bit that gives other objects functionality (which is really the bit that concerns those buying scripting tools), without exposing the really clever stuff that helps us non-scripters?
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Re: Allowing export

Post by Constance Peregrine »

Since hypergating by avatars will be enabled eventually, as well, I personally would showcase items, scripts and such things, that you do not feel comfortable setting export perms on, in Kitely only...at least at first.

Folx who hear about the items will be able to HG in easily, and it is always possible something can be discussed then...in other words, I would leave myself open to change...because change, it is a'comin'.

otoh, doing an export variation at a higher price point is also smart...certainly for most items.

I suppose it would depend upon why you sell content, rather than give it away...does a person need whatever incremental income they can make in VR to help make ends meet in RL?, or is it the only income they have? is it just to pass time? for fun? all they know?

All speculation involves risk...often the greater the risk, the greater the rewards...
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Re: Allowing export

Post by Dot Matrix »

Minethere, some of us are hoping for this functionality even before HG is enabled.

I'm one of the customers who pay a higher price for export-enabled items when they are available.

I'm trying to ensure that my backup OARs are as complete as possible, so that I don't have to redo a whole amount of work if something goes wrong with a build as a whole.

From experience, when I use Handy's tools (which, I have to say, are easy-to-use, well-documented, and work very well indeed) to get doors working in a house, the whole house unfortunately is later excluded from a back-up OAR, even though I know the rest of the house is OK for export.
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Re: Allowing export

Post by Handy Low »

Dot Matrix wrote:Is it possible to enable just the runtime portion to be exported, the bit that gives other objects functionality (which is really the bit that concerns those buying scripting tools), without exposing the really clever stuff that helps us non-scripters?
I think this is the best approach, at least for the time being. It would address your needs,and presumably those of the majority of people who need to export something.

And thanks for the kind words. :)
Minethere Always wrote:I suppose it would depend upon why you sell content, rather than give it away...does a person need whatever incremental income they can make in VR to help make ends meet in RL?, or is it the only income they have? is it just to pass time? for fun? all they know?
For the record, in my own case the income I receive is very important to me - I'm currently unemployed in RL for health reasons. (Of course, that's by no means the only motivation - the social aspect is very important to me too). If money were little or no motivation, I'd probably be coding anyway but in with an open-source approach. And in that case, naturally, none of this would be an issue.
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Re: Allowing export

Post by Handy Low »

(Submitted the previous reply prematurely)
Ozwell Wayfarer wrote:
Dundridge Dreadlow wrote: Scripts are the one thing that cannot easily be copied, which puts us scripting people in a very different situation to other creators and at much greater risk. I personally am VERY uncomfortable about allowing complex scripts for export.
I am not much of a scripter, but your sentiment is echoed by many that I talk to, and I sadly foresee that this will be a major hurdle preventing high quality scripted items appearing for export. Of course, I am sure some wont mind, but they will be a very small minority.
Yes, I tend to share Dundridge's misgivings, even though I will be allowing some scripts to be exported.
Ozwell Wayfarer wrote:Handy - perms are best handled through product variations. I have 3 general perm categories, C/M, CM/T and C/M/E.
Ah, thanks. But in this case, since it's only one part of the package that's involved, I guess I need to have a completely separate product for each.
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Re: Allowing export

Post by Constance Peregrine »

Dot Matrix wrote:Minethere, some of us are hoping for this functionality even before HG is enabled.
ah yes, I am sorry I keep forgetting about that aspect as I will never be doing that here...for backing up the worlds.

And I should stay out of content discussions...lol...[goes to find another hobby other than commenting randomly]
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Re: Allowing export

Post by Deuce Halsey »

Handy Low wrote:
Dot Matrix wrote:Is it possible to enable just the runtime portion to be exported, the bit that gives other objects functionality (which is really the bit that concerns those buying scripting tools), without exposing the really clever stuff that helps us non-scripters?
I think this is the best approach, at least for the time being. It would address your needs,and presumably those of the majority of people who need to export something.
I agree with Handy. In fact Dot's idea could turn out to be the most workable long term business model for complex scripting in OpenSim, at least in situations where the scripts have a "creator component" and a "runtime component" like Handy's systems. Kitely could become the scripting/scripted items factory for the OpenSim section of the metaverse.

This would allow builders to use the creator version of Handy's systems to make things here in Kitely, while including only the runtime version of the relevant Handy system in their finished products that they sell for export on the Kitely Market, or even on other grids.

It obviously won't cover all situations, but it's a good step in the right direction.
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