Problem with Permissions

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Snoots Dwagon
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Problem with Permissions

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

Having some problems with permissions on Kitely Market.

https://www.kitely.com/market/product/5 ... r=58379110

The main variation works fine. But the second variation, the FATPACK, is showing the item is NoMod.... although the primary box is marked Mod/Copy. Can't seem to overcome this issue. I've tried totally removing the Fatpack from the listing, rezzed the item from my inventory, set the MOD permission to the box, took it back to inventory and then re-pointed the Market listing to that new object... but the market listing still insists it's NoMod.

Got suggestions? Thanks. : )
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Re: Problem with Permissions

Post by Ilan Tochner »

Hi Snoots,

Please note that Kitely Market uses the Next Owner folded permissions for the item, so you need to extract the items from the boxes inside the box, modify their Next Owner permissions, then place them inside the box, modify its Next Owner permission, and (if you've packaged it as you have) then box all of those together and change that box's Next Owner permissions.

That said, please note that Kitely Market autoboxes orders when delivering them to third-party grids and delivers items directly into inventory when they're delivered to a Kitely avatar. This means that there is no need for you to box your items at all. Instead, simply organize them inside folders in your inventory then add those folders to the listing. This will make it easier for buyers to access what they bought from you and will make it easier for you to modify all the relevant permissions.
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Re: Problem with Permissions

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

Thanks Ilan. I prefer boxing them up... the boxes are pretty and they keep things nice and stored in one place.

For example, the Dwagons come in eggs. Now what is a dwagon without a dwagon egg? :P
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Re: Problem with Permissions

Post by Kim McCabe »

Snoots Dwagon wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:00 am
Thanks Ilan. I prefer boxing them up... the boxes are pretty and they keep things nice and stored in one place.

For example, the Dwagons come in eggs. Now what is a dwagon without a dwagon egg? :P
I had this same problem. When you are editing your item in the shop, after you upload your product, check the list of items you uploaded in the variation box. It will show every item, including scripts, animations, textures if added and instruction cards. Go through each item and check the perms. It could be as simple as one of your instructional note cards not having the right perms.
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Re: Problem with Permissions

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

Kim McCabe wrote:It could be as simple as one of your instructional note cards not having the right perms.
Yeah, I see what you mean. But notecards are sometimes made no-mod when the rest of the product is mod. So I'll need to keep that kind of thing in mind on Kitely Market. I'll be honest, I'm not sure I like Kitely Market taking the permissions indicators out of the hands of the seller. I know that's Kitely trying to be honest and fair with the customer... but that's not how permissions work. A mod object can contain a no-mod notecard, no-mod script, no-mod animations or sounds... and still be considered a Mod item.

Which is why I would prefer the ability to manually mark my items Mod/Copy/noTrans (or whatever their overall permissions might be) as is done on other markets. I really like that Kitely Market is so open with customers... but I was thinking of selling a huge space ship that contains almost a thousand prims and dozens of scripts. Not sure I want to mess with the permissions headaches that would cause, nor having overall permissions misrepresented because that huge item contains a no-mod notecard or script somewhere.

(Unless of course, I'm totally not understanding how this process works, which is always possible. I haven't had my kawfee today.) :cry:
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Re: Problem with Permissions

Post by Ilan Tochner »

You're misunderstanding how this works Snoots.

Kitely Market takes the permissions from the objects themselves, as they are stored by OpenSim. Items in your inventory may display the incorrect permissions due to the Slam Bit or folded permissions that Linden Lab designed, see: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Debug_Permissions

You can list items with whatever permissions you could sell them with inworld, as long as you, the merchant, have Owner Copy and Owner Transfer for them. We don't restrict your choice, we enforce the permissions that you have for the objects you're trying to sell while showing the buyer exactly what they'll be getting. The product permissions shown are calculated as follows:

Copy if all the components are Next Owner Copy.
Transfer if all the components are Next Owner Transfer.
Modify if at least some of the components are Next Owner Modify.
Export can be enabled if you have permission to export all the components, as explained here: https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-ne ... plemented/
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Re: Problem with Permissions

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

Ilan wrote:Copy if all the components are Next Owner Copy.
Transfer if all the components are Next Owner Transfer.
Modify if at least some of the components are Next Owner Modify.
Yup that makes sense. However yesterday when I was boxing up my Dwagon Fatpack, I put 12 dwagon eggs inside a larger dwagon egg main box. The main box was permed Modify. The dwagon eggs inside were nomod, but they were just boxes for the full-mod dwagons inside them.

The Fatpack showed up on Kitely Market as nomod. In order to get it to show up as Mod, I had to set each box inside the main box as Mod. To my understanding if the main box was Mod, it should have shown up as Mod on the market, but it didn't. I tried copying the item and deleting the old one, but the problem remained. It didn't change until I changed all of the boxes inside the mainbox to Mod.

That considered, what if I had a box that was set to MOD, and all the avatar parts inside the box were Mod, but it contained a HUD, landmark, gesture, or notecard that was nomod. According to what I experienced yesterday it would list as Nomod. Or did I just experience a glitch? I guess that's always possible, with any system. If it wasn't a glitch though, that's what I'm talking about in this forum: the seller needing control over the perms presentation. From what I saw it's entirely possible for the system to show a mod item as nomod just because one item in the box is nomod. That doesn't correctly represent the product. I think it's possible what I experienced is an actual bug in the Market function.
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Re: Problem with Permissions

Post by Ilan Tochner »

You probably didn't change the permissions of the items before placing them inside a rezzed box.

See, for example, this product listing which is listed as Modify but contains a no-Modify notecard.
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Re: Problem with Permissions

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

Ilan Tochner wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:22 am
You probably didn't change the permissions of the items before placing them inside a rezzed box.

OHHHHhhhhh. Now that rings a bell. Methinks I remember putting them inside the rezzed box and then changing permissions within the box. Gahhh newb mistake. Seriously, I gotta change my brand of kawfee. Or get to bed earlier or something.

Thanks you thanks you. Feeling more confident in listings now. :)

As they used to say on Saturday Night Live: "Neber mind..."

:oops:
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Re: Problem with Permissions

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

I woke up this morning and had one of those "Wait a minute..." moments.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't we supposed to be able to properly set permissions on items that are inside a box?

Now yes, setting permissions on an item in our inventory is a no-no, thanks to LL's pervasive insanity.

However... setting permissions on items in boxes is supposed to be totally okay. Otherwise how would we ever set permissions on items such as notecards, gestures, sounds, scripts, skins and other body parts, or other items that are totally not-rezzable.

Setting permissions on items inside a box is supposed to be totally "safe" and the way to do things. So really, there should have been no problem with me setting the permissions on dragon eggs that were inside a box. That should conceptually be no different than setting permissions on a script or a sound that is inside an object. Am I correct? Because that is "how it's been done" like... forever: Avoid setting permissions on items in inventory. To set permissions on items, they need to either be rezzed, or inside a rezzed box.

Still seems to me there was either a glitch or a bug that happened when I tried to post that fatpack containing a dozen dragon eggs inside a box. To summarize again: the box was Mod. The "eggs" inside were nomod (their contents were mod), and the notecard in the main box was nomod. Although the main box was Mod, the item registered as nomod on Kitely market. Seems to me something there simply didn't work right. Am I perceiving this correctly?
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