ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

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Snoots Dwagon
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Re: ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

Gwyddion Oakley wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:37 am
Thank you Snoots,
Having just sat up till 6am, trying to figure out what is going on, I am very glad of your help.
If this is the case, then I certainly will be charging more than $15 as it would be 6 months of work in total.
I can empathize with the frustration. However, I wouldn't go through all that. It's simply not worth it.

Dot makes a very good suggestion, which I'm going to repeat here so it's all in one place (and because I'm a dwagon and that's how we roll).

The reality is there are three physics engines. This is the case on OSgrid (an experimental grid where many of the lands are owned by individuals and they can choose whichever Opensim version and physics engine they want to use) and it's true on Kitely, which wisely allows any of three physics engines because of problems just like these. It's also true throughout the Hypergrid, which one must consider if making items for Export. So how does one create marketable items for three different physics engines?

In some cases one doesn't. We just create an item for one physics engine and let the customer know that's the case in the product listing. (This is often the situation with vehicles.) But in other instances, it's possible (with relative ease) to make a creation fully compatible.

A SOLUTION FOR MERCHANTS
No merchant wants to make three versions of a building... and no merchant I know of does so. It is possible however to make a building that works on all three physics platforms.

If one is creating Ubode builds for Ubode regions or Bullet builds for Bullet regions, that's fine. Put in the listing which physics system it's designed for and leave it at that. But then take one more step...

TO MAKE THE BUILDING ALL-PHYSICS COMPATIBLE
It's reasonably easy for merchants (even on existing builds) to quickly update them to be all-physics compatible.

1) Include the standard building (either ODE or Ubode compatible, depending on how it was first created). Mark this one "ODE (or Ubode) version".
2) Include a PHANTOM version of the building that already has the invisible solid prim floors and walls included. Mark this one "Universal version".

It takes maybe 5-10 minutes to create prim floors and re-pack a box. Reasonably easy solution. Yes, this solution increases the prim count of the product, which is why it's often good to include both versions-- the low-prim limited-physics model, and the higher-prim universal model.

IF you are selling a no-copy item (and don't want to include a second version), modify the existing build to be phantom and use the invisible floors and walls. This almost always works for universal compatibility. The only time this really can't be done (or is difficult to do) is when the build is so complex that it's nearly impossible to create an invisible prim platform.

This is better than taking 6 months to totally re-design products that have been on the market for years. :mrgreen:

(Note: there may be other solutions that can be added to this information. I'll let others post those solutions. There are almost always other solutions.) : )
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Re: ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

Follow-up:
Because of the nature of virtual worlds... it is not at all uncommon for merchants to be forced to go to great lengths to update their products because some Super Loony company has changed the way their entire system operates. Many years ago I and another well-known creator (whose name I won't name-drop here) were exceedingly frustrated at this in regard to our sound players. The two of us had the best music playing scripts, both different scripts but both flawless. We were known for our music players. But every. single. time. the grid made an "update" it would wind up causing lag in some new area... so we both would have to dive back in an create workarounds to our sound scripts. After about a dozen times of doing that for a dozen products, one gets really tired of that game. But it was either that or take the product off the market. One can't just keep raising prices because a few more hours were put into development. There's a limit to what customers will pay.

Updating merchandise is nothing new to long-time sellers. I just recently opened my store on Kitely and there's not a single product I haven't had to significantly modify to do so. It's just how things work in virtual worlds. Spending time updating products is the price we pay for not having to mess with a real life storefront, employees, utilities, etc etc. However as pointed out in the previous message, we can update the hard way or the smart way. Watch me pull a rabbit outta my hat... :roll:
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Re: ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

Post by Mane Shieldmaiden »

Mane Shieldmaiden wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:47 pm
Tess Juel wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:36 pm
Mane Shieldmaiden wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:40 pm
PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY ARE BEING RIPPED OFF BECAUSE THE SELLOR WILL NOT RESPOND OR REFUND FOR BAD MESH.
The seller hasn't logged on to Kitely for more than three months so they never got your message. I know that's not neccessarily an excuse but at least it's an explanation.
Mane Shieldmaiden wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:40 pm
IF THEY ARE GOING TO SELL MESH IT SHOULD BE MADE ADAPTIBLE PRODUCT FOR OPEN SIM OR ANY SIM.
Absolutely! Unfortunately that's not an uncommon problem.
I FINALLY FOUND HIM ON SECOND LIFE AND HE'S WILLING TO WORK OUT A RESOLUTION. HE SEEMS LIKE A VERY NICE PERSON.


UPDATE.............HE'S REVISED THE CASTLE TO UBODE AND ITS NOW WORKING. ALL IS GOOD. WHAT A NICE MAN AND EASY TO WORK WITH. THANKS SO MUCH. A+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Re: ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

Post by Gwyddion Oakley »

Thanks everyone for all the help and suggestions here.

Mane is now in possession of a working Castle, the advert has been updated to include both versions.

I have sent redeliveries to all who purchased the Castle, but some did not go through, so if anyone still needs a working copy, please do message me.

I hear you Snoots, and will certainly try to make one version in future that is more easily compatible. I think the problem was that I started on the wrong physics engine, which was a lot of work, but re-fitting to ubODE was only a day's work, not the 2 months of re-meshing that the other engine required. However as you stated, it is a lot more prims. But it works fine and that is the main thing.

I would like to reply to your comments too Gregg Legendary

"Question: Wouldn't reuploading using the high setting in physics resolve the issue for all the various formats?"

As far as I can tell, no, this is what I did to start with, but IIan assures me there is a way to make one item work on all three physics engines by including the physics information in the mesh build, which is actually what I normally do, but I think it must make a difference which platform it is uploaded on in the first place.

I will certainly be doing a lot of testing now!
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Re: ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

Post by Zed deTremont »

Hello Gwyddion and Gregg,

Perhaps little comment as it regards Physics shapes/collision boxes.
As Gwyddion rightfully indicated never ever get any mesh in with a high number of tris. So for sure not equal to the highest LOD level. Whatever you add will always add a tiny bit on lag but two things absolutely excel in this beyond anything else.
1. Over complex physics shapes which can give really awkward results
2. Overly complex and not efficient written scripts (I don't go deeper in this I'm not the right person to speak about these things.

A collision shape will always check positions of avatars and how to collide with whatever it should collide with. So rule number one is to get the tris as low as possible. I think it's highly recommended to always make you're physics manually, this way I never had issues with any physics system. If you can use 4 tris, do it with those.
Examples:
Frames of windows and even doors: both are so narrow that nobody ever could pass. So in principle just use 2 planes, front and back, not borders are needed, you'll have 4 tris instead of 12 (no modified cube)
Floors: same as above
Furniture: just enough to get a correct bounding box, see that you have a tiny bit more then a top and bottom. if not people pass. Mostly you get away with 10 tris at max.
Stairs: make a ramp not individual stairs, see to it that it's smooth or at some point avatars might fall through, as with spiral staircases or winder stairs. The last once can be tricky since the difference in distance can be serious over a short interval.

Whatever that doesn't need a collision box as deco on a building set the physics to none. Nobody will collide with those and even if few will note it or be annoyed by it.

See to it that you for sure have no stacked verts, physics shapes can't have close verts. In sl your Li will increase seriously and it might even be that when you decrease an object that the Li increases significant.

Bad physics shapes can eat the CPU's of the server away in a short time. So all persons will be influenced. For this reason Ilan and Oren have incorporated a safety measurement to automatically disable the physics of a mesh with serious issues. Thanks for that since at some point I know there where problems.

Hope this helps,
If you have questions Gwyddion pls do not hesitate to ask. You can contact me here, in kitely or sl. No problem. Also find it great that you solved the problem for your customer (excuse me don't have the name at hand).
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Re: ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

Post by Dot Matrix »

It's great how all this has been resolved. Thank you to all for working through the issues.

One thing remains to be sorted: Mane and Jinna, would you consider going back to your reviews of Rose Castle on Kitely Market and editing them now you have a working version of the Castle, so that people in the future will know that the issues have been dealt with?
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Re: ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

Post by Snoots Dwagon »

There is another trick to creating physical surfaces that was taught me recently:

Blender ignores transparent textures. So if you're creating a physics floor, rather than creating a box and turning the whole thing invisible... apply the transparent texture to all but the surface side. That way instead of having six physical sides, you will have a one-sided, 2-dimensional surface... and lower physics impact. (Or so I was informed.)

Evidently most Blender experts already know this, but for us newbs just starting out in Blender, this is a neat bit of knowledge. 8-)

Disclaimer: While technically this is awesome... realistically you will probably never notice the difference. Yes, it will have less impact on the server, but human senses can't really discern a nano- or pico-second. You'd have to have several hundred or thousands of such surfaces with 50 avatars walking on them at once to make a noticeable dent on server performance. This is just information for those who really, really, really want to trim their sim to best. possible. performance. To be totally honest, one avatar moving around, one person logging in or out of a world, or one texture loading in a vendor has far greater "lag" impact than all the physical surfaces you will likely muster.

That's the difference between tech stats and reality. Just because something is so doesn't mean it really matters. :mrgreen:
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Re: ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

Post by Chris Namaste »

:)
going to send an im to the two,avatars who gave a ONE for this,castle,after all what thecreator did & so many pple here, this :

hi 'name',can u please ajust your review for the rose castle, the owner-creator has adapted it completely & many people,helped, he send the adapted version, he deserves a good review.

just mentioning, i hate injustice :)
christa

https://www.kitely.com/market/product/5 ... le-Updated
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Re: ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

Post by Chris Namaste »

:)
one of the two customers replied,she would change her reveiw
when she receives the castle she wrote,
maybe there is a misunderstanding or she didnt,got it?
maybe Gwyddion can im them,both customers & tell them,he send the new castle,
so they know,to look,intheir kitelyfolder ?

'just wanting everyone to be happy'
christa
Chris CreationZ url kitely market : https://www.kitely.com/market?store=914 ... &sort=date
Because ultimately we are not the avatars we create. We are not the pictures on the film stock. We are the light that shines through.Jim Carrey
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Re: ROSE CASTLE PURCHASE FOR $15.00

Post by Chris Namaste »

:)
ok,there seems to be a problem :(
the customer wrote to the maker & still no new castle (today new ims of her to my im-nor in her kitely folder),
i hope all can be solved ,
maybe the owners of kitely can do something so the customer get their new castle?
i underst she isnt happy,and writes the maker dont reply her

(this is not any of mybusiness fyi, i donno the maker nor the customers, ijust do (a lot btw) for kitely market, that all wld be safe - quality and customers happy, its in all of our interest, and there is so much illegal & uglyness 'around' the virtual worlds, that, here,in kitely, is an exemple how good & fair & legal all can be :) :)

since, it MATTERS (in my life that is-its my personality), in general, that things are 'right & honest',
and mistunderstanding shappen a lot, its 'just life' right :)
bc maker said he made a new one & its send it to customers, i dont understand :)
thx for helping to sort it out,if possible, im stopping now to try to help, i cant do more :)
thumbs up :)
christa
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