Kitely Forums

(This post was edited to correct mistakes)

At the last Kitely Community Meeting there was some discussion about how to calculate prices for marking things Export. Someone mentioned that a price increase for selling something “Export” was a tax on the honest people to help defray the amortized cost of getting your intellectual property stolen. I think there are several layers to this that are worth talking about. I'll discuss how I “calculate” some of my prices here to help others make similar decisions.

C
You can sell an item copyable (my preferred minimum protection to sell anything). The new owner can rez several copies inside Kitely and recover if one is deleted or lost for any reason. They cannot back it up into an OAR or take it with them to other grids. In the bad old days of OpenSim, the servers often crashed and lost non-copyable items, so many people prefer to have copyable items. (I have not lost anything on an OpenSim grid in a long time).

CE
You can put an item in the Kitely Marketplace that is marked CE (copyable and exportable). This is an item that your customer can make copies of, save in an OAR, take with them to another grid and copy there. Someone on the OSgrid could abuse God Mode and steal it from you. So far, I have not added a tax on items marked Exportable this way. But I am considering pricing them a little higher than items that are just marked COPYable.

MC
I sell things that are intended for people to build into their own boats in Kitely. These have to be MOD to allow them to be linked into their builds. In my case this tends to be something simple like a compass that is not very useful if sold copy only. So this is sold at the lowest price, lets say KC$300. My customers could build this compass into all their private boats in Kitely, make many copies, and could allow all their friends and visitors to use them. But they cannot sell them or take them to other grids.

MCT
I sell “full perm” versions of many items for people to build into boats that they then want to sell to others. The root prim is full perm (MCT) but I mark the scripts inside as CT only. This allows my customers to make copies, build them into boats and sell copies of those boats to their customers. Nobody but me can read or modify the scripts. (Unless they abuse God Mode in OSGrid and violate my copyright).

I could sell compasses to everybody one at a time, but if I sell a TRANS version to a boat builder, they are going to do all the hard work of marketing. (Much harder than scripting IMHO!) So my internal calculation is if I charge a boat builder 4 times the individual price of the compass, I will do OK. They may sell many more than 4 copies, but I will still do OK. So I take that KC$300 I mentioned above for a compass, multiply by 4 and sell the “full perm” version for KC$1200.

If bought from my vending machines in-world, my customers can back them up in OARs and take them with them when hypergridding to other grids, make copies when they get there and still use them in builds for sale. If bought from the Kitely Marketplace, my customers could not back up or export items, so I never use MCT in the Marketplace.

There is a possibility that a script marked CT can be copied out of my build and used by a clever person to do the same function in other builds (even without God Mode). Then sold to other people! I actually had somebody copy a CT script of mine in Second Life once. Then they IMed me and asked for advice on how to make it work better! Cheeky bastard! Actually we got along well and I tried to help him out. I don't think I lost any business to this transaction.

MCTE
Since I have already given builders export permission in MCT mode in my vending machines, I don't see any additional threat in marking a “boat builder” item as Export. So I charge the same price for this (4 times the MC only price) and never use an MCT version in the Marketplace. MCTE allows boat builders to link my compass into their boats, sell the boats, back them up in OARs, take them to other grids and do it all again.

MCE
This is a mode I have considered but never used yet. This is a mode that would allow my customer to make boats in Kitely for personal use, and also in any other grid for personal use. (And allow their friends to ride). But they could not sell the resulting boats in Kitely or other grids. This is sort of half way between MC and MCTE, so if I was to offer items for sale in this mode, I suppose the calculation would be twice the base price. So in the case of the KC$300 I mentioned above for a compass, this would be listed at KC$600.

(this post was edited to correct mistakes)

I for 1 am glad to see this write up and break down of permissions and how each work.Awesome,thanks Now if i can figure out how to determine if i can hyperjump in a wearable before i buy,that would be groovey. I have some hair for example that is copy/mod/transfer but i still can not grid jump in it. That is stopping me at the moment from doing alot of shopping for clothing,until i figure it out.

Some people, Me for example, are only investing in Kitely but I need Export functions to be sure my OARs go smoothly saved

So please remember - Not only Hypergriders have advantages on finding Export items

Lily Annabella wrote:Now if i can figure out how to determine if i can hyperjump in a wearable before i buy,that would be groovey. I have some hair for example that is copy/mod/transfer but i still can not grid jump in it. That is stopping me at the moment from doing alot of shopping for clothing,until i figure it out.

I think what happened with your hair is that it has something in its inventory that is noTrans or noCopy. An item can be marked MCT on the outside, but if it has a script or something inside that is noTrans, you will not be allowed to take it with you. You might be able to make a copy of that hair and delete that script from it and then take it with you. This could be a sizing script for example, and once you have sized it to fit you can wear it without the script. If you ever need to resize it you can go get the original copy out of inventory and start over.

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When you are shopping on the Marketplace, scroll down to the items list and scan down the permissions. If all the permissions in an item have E on the end, this is an item you can wear while hyperjumping.

When you are shopping in-world, things are more complicated.

If you click on an item and select BUY, the Buy Contents dialog shows you a list of everything you will get and it's permissions. You want items that don't say (no modify) or (no transfer). I think (but I am not sure) that for objects this shows the combined permissions of everything inside them. If it does not say (no modify) or (no copy) you are good! But it might say one of those because of a script inside, which you could delete as I described above. You have no way of knowing this.

If the item is sold in a vending machine, you can't get a preview like the Buy Contents dialog. You have to depend on what the surrounding advertizing says. I'd say merchants need to put up signs saying so if hey sell exportable items. I put the hypergrid logo on every vending machine of mine that sells an exportable item. But I don't sell hair or clothing...

(this posting was edited to correct errors)

Just to clarify, items sold in Kitely Market with MCT and no E are not exportable and will be filtered out from OAR files and hypergrid travel. In other words, items acquired from Kitely Market have to have E in order to be exportable. See: http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-new ... plemented/

So to clarify, items (and all the subcomponents of the items) must be marked as (C)opy, (T)ransfer, AND (E)xportable in order to be worn while hypergridding?

Serene Jewell wrote:So to clarify, items (and all the subcomponents of the items) must be marked as (C)opy, (T)ransfer, AND (E)xportable in order to be worn while hypergridding?

As far as I can tell, If you purchase an item from the kitley market, it must have EXPORT permissions for hypergridding to work. The rest of the permissions dont matter.

If you purchase an item in world, kitely uses different rules. I think the item requires COPY and TRANSFER permissions, but someone else will have to clarify that.

EDIT: Ilan states the same thing here: http://www.kitely.com/forums/viewtopic. ... ble#p13034

Can someone explain to me why exportable items I have purchased from Kitely market cannot be rezzed by me in other grids? I understand why I cannot pass my own exportable items to another of my avs elsewhere, but why can't I (In my Kitely Av) rez them elsewhere? I have found this to be true of every exportable item I have purchased and had delivered to Freda Frostbite in Kitely. If I try to use the items on land I own in other grids, I cannot rez them. I can however buy them again and have them delivered to my avs on other grids and then they rez as they should. I had already decided not to purchase another item from KM that was not exportable. This makes me think I would be better off purchasing nothing there.

For inventory items to be accessible when hypergridding, place them in the folder called "My Suitcase" before you set off.

Items you created yourself, CMT items from other people and Export enabled items from Kitely Market can be placed there.

Ilan Tochner wrote:Just to clarify, items sold in Kitely Market with MCT and no E are not exportable and will be filtered out from OAR files and hypergrid travel. In other words, items acquired from Kitely Market have to have E in order to be exportable. See: http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-new ... plemented/

OK, so my original post is incorrect in several places. I will go edit that so it doesn't hang around and confuse people. Re-reading the relevant parts of Ilan's blog link makes me hypothesize that Kitely has several extra bits in the asset database to keep track of Export and Marketplace separately:

You can hyperjump from Kitely while wearing an item if:
You made it yourself.
It was bought from the MarketPlace and had Export checked.
It was bought in-world and has both Copy and Trans checked.

You can NOT huperjump from Kitely while wearing an item if:
It was bought ifrom the MarketPlace and DID NOT have Export checked.
It was bought in-world and DOES NOT have both Copy and Trans checked.

So I have a few new questions:
Q: Since the Export bit is not shown in the viewers, how can I check an item to see if it was bought in the Marketplace and has Expport checked? (Besides going back to the MarketPlace and reading it there).
Q: Am I correct that other Grids don't have an export bit and rely on worn objects being Copy and Trans to the owner to allow them while hyperjumping? If that is true, if I buy something that is CE in the MarketPlace, I can jump From Kitely to another grid while wearing it, but if I try to jump from there to a third grid, the item will only be Copy and the jump will fail. I would have to buy items that were CTE in the marketplace to allow jumping multiple times like that.