Kitely Forums

Ilan Tochner wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:59 pm

Hi Serendipity and Gusher,

Accepting crypto or turning Kitely Credits into a convertible currency both involve legal and filing costs (both financial and bureaucratic) that far outweigh any income that we can gain from doing so. We've already had to deal with local authorities because they thought Kitely Credits were a convertible currency. We were only able to retain our ability to do business because we repeatedly assured the relevant parties that Kitely Credits are not a convertible currency and that none of our income is derived from dealing with crypto currencies, directly or indirectly. In other words, our revenue is not nearly high enough for us to be able to afford jumping through all the legal and bureaucratic hoops that are required to do business with a convertible virtual currency (crypto or otherwise).

As stated previously in this thread, as an Israeli company our international billing options are a lot more limited than those of US-based companies. Even though we've had our own frustrating dealings with PayPal in the past, they still remain our best option after taking everything into consideration, including business-operation procedures which frankly I'm envious of those of you who don't have to deal with them. Stripe may become an option for us in the future but despite their opening local offices already, Israeli regulatory hurdles are delaying their availability.

As such, at this time, our only ability to bill credit cards (international or otherwise) is using PayPal. My suggestion, for those of you who do not wish to create a PayPal subscription for our service is to use the option to buy Kitely Credits using a non-repeating credit card transaction done via our PayPal integration. This should allow you to pay using your credit card via the PayPal site without creating a PayPal account (it's optional at the end of the payment process if you're not already signed into PayPal).

Serendipity Seraph wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:12 pm

However it seems to me there would not be so much problem allowing *buying* Kitely Credits via crypto or credit cards. For at least payments to Kitely this could free us from PayPal.

If you are a seller and receive funds for transactions that violate the Acceptable Use Policy and said violation is associated with fraud or the sale of goods that are counterfeit or otherwise infringe on intellectual property rights, then in addition to being subject to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal's damages caused by said violation. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500 USD (or equivalent) per violation is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal's actual damages - including, but not limited to internal administrative costs incurred by PayPal to monitor and track violations, damage to PayPal’s brand and reputation, and penalties imposed upon PayPal by its business partners resulting from said violation associated with fraud or the sale of goods that are counterfeit or otherwise infringe on intellectual property rights - considering all currently existing circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated because, due to the nature of the violation, actual damages would be impractical or extremely difficult to calculate. PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing balance in any PayPal account you control.

Moonrise Azalee wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:37 pm

The documents seem to read differently for different places, because when I read it it says:

If you are a seller and receive funds for transactions that violate the Acceptable Use Policy and said violation is associated with fraud or the sale of goods that are counterfeit or otherwise infringe on intellectual property rights, then in addition to being subject to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal's damages caused by said violation. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500 USD (or equivalent) per violation is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal's actual damages - including, but not limited to internal administrative costs incurred by PayPal to monitor and track violations, damage to PayPal’s brand and reputation, and penalties imposed upon PayPal by its business partners resulting from said violation associated with fraud or the sale of goods that are counterfeit or otherwise infringe on intellectual property rights - considering all currently existing circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated because, due to the nature of the violation, actual damages would be impractical or extremely difficult to calculate. PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing balance in any PayPal account you control.

( https://www.paypal.com/al/webapps/mpp/u ... restricted )
Like it or not, Paypal is a business and it wants to protect itself from people using its service for things that could get PayPal itself into huge hot water. And here it seems to apply the fine discussed, only to situations where the violation against AUP also includes fraud/counterfeit/intellectual property rights.
Like using it for your business that sells rip off CD/DVD/ , Microsoft software, etc.

Serendipity Seraph wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:10 pm

What are you talking about? Show many any law on the books by which PayPal can be held liable if someone they have an account with posts something that some don't like on some social media platform. There is no crime in such posts themselves so there is nothing to be held legally against PayPal for such. But PayPal has closed accounts for such things.