Kitely Forums

This will be my last post, i am sure you are fed up with my complaints but i had the last straw today.
I understand the rules about the adult setting, but that also knocks me out of search, i searched skins as if i was a person just looking at MP from the outside, my skins or avatars did not show.
Its one thing for a merchant to advise me of the adult settings its quite another for that merchant who also sells skins to buy my product for the sole purpose of putting up a negative review,then then threaten me with non removal of her review unless i do as she dictates.
Who the H is she,the Kitely MP police, afraid of competition?,
As i said previously i don't find Kitely a satisfactory experience and she just tipped me over the edge,i was spitting nails this morning when i read in my email her post and 2 revisions, her final post was less critical as the edits which i saw ,
I was going to stay just to spite her, but it's not worth it,,i find i just don't fit into Kitely and its ways, i seem to be butting heads at every turn, i thought finally after i got everything in the shop i would get some peace, but no, here we go again.
I'll just go back to SL and VH, i was contemplating getting a sim here, but not now.
I would suggest you reign her in or other creators will get the same as i did and word of mouth can spread among creators and that's not good for KItely and it's future
I certainly haven't had a pleasant experience here, although you have been more than helpful Ilan, and i appreciate that.
I'll not say anymore but i have posted the review i got,it is self explanatory in my answer to her as well
I would never buy a skin that shows it wearing underwear as hers does, whether you agree with it or not, people in SL go to adult clubs in the nude and wearing white ugly underpants would not sell,they want to look as real as possible and that is what my skins do
Goodbye and thanks for everything,at least i learned a lot from my experience here,

Adorable Skins Ruby
Sierra Jakob
15 Dec 2013

As Shown, But More Could Be Shown.
[Variation: skin 2]
I do not typically purchase products from competitors, but did so in this case for research. I thank the merchant for responding to my request to move her product to the appropriate maturity level.

Now I find myself in the position of needing to write an actual review of the product and I will strive to be as objective for the next customer--and as a professional courtesy to my fellow merchant.

The skin face is exactly as pictured in the photo. However, the body is not displayed in the market photos at all--so there is no way for the customer to judge whether the product will meet expectations or not. I will leave my own personal taste out of the equation here. The point is for the customer to be given enough information to be able to make a decision about whether the product is in line with their own esthetics. Full disclosure to the customer is a Kitely standard--we merchants have been given plenty of room to display multiple pictures of products and have been encouraged to do so.

Because only a small part of this product is displayed in the market, this product cannot be rated a full 5 stars. Should the merchant choose to add photos to fully represent the product, I am willing to amend or delete this review.

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Comments
nikita Jefferson
15 Dec 2013

So this was 'nt a real purchase ,just to see what,s in there,
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Permalink
nikita Jefferson
17 Dec 2013

The above (the top one) review is a little over the top,if it was a real customer i might take it seriously but it is a review from another merchant who sells skins.
I personally would never consider buying her skins because i find the quality not to my standards.
I think there is professional jealousy going on here.
That being said what she is reviewing is not what is being sold.
What is being sold is the skin, the shape is being included because many do not understand the relationship between skins and shapes.
They see a lovely looking face and thats why they buy it, to look like the skin in the display, if you buy a skin without a shape as you would buying her product you would look nothing like the display.
The shape is provided as a courtesy, and is not the feature of the sale.
Giving such a review shows it is not objective but given for some other reason.
What she also fails to realize is the shape is mod, so the buyer can reduce the bust size and make the shape to their own liking.
I just find the above review to be petty and vindictive and anyone reading it will realize that

Do not delete your review as you say, leave it there, i do not intend to do what you threaten if i do not do what you say, i refuse to be coerced by you.
Leave your review and people will see how petty and vindictive you are which reflects you as a person and your products
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nikita Jefferson
17 Dec 2013

This part of her review she edited.which shows how petty she is.
One cannot satisfy every taste that is why the shape is mod so if someone does not like the shape as bought they can adjust it to their liking.
this is her edited part
"The skin is as pictured in the photo. However, it would have been nice to see the skin body. Had I been shopping as a customer,
I probably would not have purchased this skin had I realized the nipples looked so much like a photo of real nipples--I just find that a bit disconcerting,
personally. Also, the skin on the breasts have too much cleavage for my own personal tastes. So the complaint here is not that these things exist--it is only that they were not shown in the photos
If good pictures are placed in the ad, that accurately reflect the actual skin, then I will adjust the review."

What she failed to mention is the skin is as real looking to a human skin as you can get, it is anatomically correct.
In secondlife thats how skins look,i guess not here.

Hi nikita,

I'm very sorry to see you go, I quite liked your products and would have really preferred to have continued to have them sold via our marketplace.

I don't want to go into the discourse between you and the other merchant but I do want to explain how Kitely market filtering works:

New accounts are set to the Moderate maturity rating, unless we have info that they belong to children under the age of 13 in which case they're locked into the General maturity rating. Users of sufficient age can then change their account's maturity rating to Adult if they want, in their account's Settings page.

When searching the marketplace the default, unfiltered, results for the user will be set to include all items that are up to the user's maturity rating. As that is the case, Adult-rated items will not be shown to new users unless they first change their account's maturity rating. People who are not logged in will be able to view the site as if they had Moderate maturity rating.

There are merchants that have taken this into consideration and have created separate products for different maturity rating. For example, they sell a skin that is fully nude with anatomical details that is sold as part of a product with an Adult maturity rating. They then also sell the same items but with the skin texture including underwear as part of a similar product with General maturity rating. This way users of all Maturity ratings can find a version of the skin that is appropriate for them.

I'd suggest just displaying full body for skins.. Just so people know what they are getting. Ive bought skins for faces myself(elsewhere !) with horrible bodies and vice versa

Hey Nikita

Staying out of anything between you and anyone else, I would say the review is unfair because at the end of the day it is not a review of the product at all, but rather a review of your listing.

I could understand someone complaining in this manner if there was something actually wrong with the product. But the review doesn't actually tell me anything about the product at all.

I see this as borderline abuse of the rating system. I would certainly not be chuffed either if someone did that to me. I understand how frustrated you must feel.

Just to set the record clear for any reader who is confused as to the chronology of events.
Nikita listed her adult skins for many months in the a category rated for children--she was able to do this by not displaying a picture of the complete skin.
In December, Sierra wonders why she has sold no adult skins, even though her skins are clearly of higher quality. Sierra wonders why people buy Nikita's "general" skins if they have on underwear--and why people who buy avatars with permanent underwear would want to wear so much makeup. Sierra purchases a Nikita skin to discover what is so special. She discovers that Nikita has been gaming the market--cheating. She discovers that Nikita has been selling "adult" skins, but labeling them as "general" so more people would look at them and buy them.
Sierra PM's Nikita explaining the maturity ratings. Nikita does not respond.
Sierra Reviews Nikita's Skin Product in the market and asks her to correct the maturity rating. Nikita moves this skin to "adult".
Sierra revises the review. At first, she tries to point out things about the body that might put off some customers to try to illustrate why a picture would be better. But quickly edits the review to not include a discussion of personal taste--this seems inappropriate between colleagues--and keeps it to the need for a picture.
Nikita flips out.
Ozwell encourages her.
You should now be caught up.

My comments have nothing to do with the people involved and everything to do with using the rating system correctly.

If the review was delivered in the way shown above, then I stand by my opinion. Sierra may be correct in every other way, but airing it in the reviews like that is not the right forum.

If you feel something is listed incorrectly and the merchant wont resolve this then it has to be at the discretion of the guys running Kitely. They police the listings at the end of the day.

I see Sierra has a forum thread on this very topic. I would advise following through on that and seeing what happens.

Hi Ozwell,

We'll be discussing this issue in tomorrow's Mentors Group Meeting then, once the contentious points have been ironed out, post clear guidelines for how to decide what maturity rating to place a product in and how skins and shapes should be displayed in the marketplace.

I'd be interested to know how that discussion turns out as it is my belief and understanding that as long as a merchant doesn't actually show body parts in the photos, that the item can be listed as general or moderate on the marketplace, even if there is adult content in the package (nudity, not blatant sexuality I mean).

Nikita, I hope you decide to stay as your products are high quality and sorely needed here!

[Edit: I just noticed Ilan's explanation of the rating rules that are being reworked in another thread. Ilan, please disregard my above assumption.]

Proper content labeling is important - regardless of the impact. (Sorry). It's simply better to know.

If you display full body its probably pretty clear what the category should be.

Let's not have general adverts for adult material. Kitely has a very high amount of education friendly material and which includes people who can get fired for adult/nude stuff. Go easy on them

Ozwell, I cannot imagine why you would try to make Nikita think it would have been more professional or kinder had the review called her potential customer's attention to flaws in her product. A Skin is just a texture and can speak for itself--if a picture is provided. Asking for full disclosure is a legitimate request from a customer or a fellow merchant. Although I prefer to try to work things out behind the scenes, there are times when this doesn't work and one needs to address an issue in a more public forum such as a product review or the forums.

Nikita, I hope that you have only deactivated your products and not yet pulled them from the market entirely. When your emotions have calmed a bit and you go back over events, you may see things in a less dramatic light. Much effort must have gone into placing all those products into the market. I reviewed one of your products asking for a picture to be included in the ad. Ilan hasn't yet said that's a requirement. But if you would like to create full body pictures for your skins, but feel it is an overwhelming amount of work, perhaps I could assist. If you did the modeling and I did the photography, we could probably do your entire line in an hour or so--to get the pictures for your adult skins. Think about it and let me know if you would like to work together. Also, if you would like to make a set of skins that can be placed in the general category quickly, I'm happy to give you some simple non-sexy underwear to burn into the skins that are appropriate for children.