Are we building for nobody?

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Amiryu Hosoi
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Are we building for nobody?

Post by Amiryu Hosoi » Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:24 pm

I have been working on my sims again for some days and added a lot of new scenery. I really like the work and enjoy the results. It feels like creating a new home for my digital me to live in. There is however a slight problem. Everytime I am logged in I don't see much visitors. Isn't that exactly what we are building for, visitors, people to enjoy our scenery?

Do you think hyperfgrid will bring in more people or do you think we are fooling ourselves. Maybe Kitely is to big, to unknown, to far away from all the people hanging out in OpenSim cyberspace... There are times I am thinking I am building all of this for nobody else but for me and that would be foolish I guess. If there won't be more people then it won't be possible to build communities and we will be stuck all alone in our sims;-(

What do you think my friends?

Ami
Now delivering to hypergrid http://www.kitely.com/market?store=2570982
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Re: Are we building for nobody?

Post by Chav Paderborn » Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:47 pm

OpenSim in general has - to me - too much land and too few people. I think in your case you'd have to import roleplayers from SL? Though I'd be totally up for making an alt to play there as it is very very pretty.

I haven't had many visitors either, though Dust is very much nowhere near finished anyway. (It's evolving, a work in progress or something.) One thing is we meet fewer people unless we wander the Public Worlds page, whereas in SL with less land per person we'd meet people in sandboxes or in themed areas that they couldn't afford on their own. We also don't have any sort of social hub as a place to go to and be fairly sure of meeting someone there. I really don't know what could be done about that, though.
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Re: Are we building for nobody?

Post by Ilan Tochner » Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:53 pm

Hi Ami,

There are a lot of public worlds in Kitely, most people spend most of their time in their own world(s), and most of those worlds are private. This makes it much harder to randomly encounter other people inworld. Like websites, if you want to get traffic you need to either advertise some attraction or create an experience people will want to tell their friends about.

If there are no unexpected delays, Kitely will be hypergrid enabled in less than a month. At which point it will be easier for a lot more people to visit your world(s) but you'll also be competing with regions outside Kitely for people's attention. If I were you I'd start planning how to create initial traffic so that word about your world(s) can start spreading on the metaverse.
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Re: Are we building for nobody?

Post by Dot Matrix » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:18 am

I'm wondering whether it's time to compile a directory thread of worlds offering places for those who would like to make a home here but have no desire (or ability) to set up a complete region.

Once Kitely becomes connected via Hypergrid, Hypergridders will be able to set up a home-base here and still go wandering. A directory would help them find places to settle quickly.

There are some gorgeous builds here on Kitely, and the quality items on Kitely Market (not all of which are export-enabled so can only be used in Kitely) means you can get the best of all worlds (literally!).

Whatever, I suspect it's going to need to be a community initiative.
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Re: Are we building for nobody?

Post by Graham Mills » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:22 am

I think it's all too easy to get distracted by the potential of virtual worlds -- the copious amount of space in Kitely encourages exploratory builds, many of which never see the light of day. Time spent on that means you often miss visiting other worlds or participating in social events. As an educator, figuring out the best ways to use Kitely with students takes priority but I also want to engage in outreach and I well remember the surge of visitors that the Lisbon 1755 world attracted when they got national press coverage. I think engaging with those who have not used virtual worlds previously as they did is an important step. People who use SL tend to develop a network there that keeps them rooted despite the high cost of tier unless, of course, they want to build.

Hypergrid will bring people in and high profile builds on Kitely get mention in some of the more prominent SL and OpenSim blogs. However, I do wonder whether we also need a Kitely community blog outside the forums that could announce new builds, events and commercial developments in a concise and visually attractive manner. I can't help thinking that we also need to get more machinima artists to visit and use Kitely.

I wonder whether educators and others also need to demonstrate a relevance to external events. Where are the builds commemorating (and just as importantly explaining) the centenary of World War I and the 70th anniversary of D-Day? Where are the builds related to the recently released IPCC climate change report? There are opportunities here to exploit the immersive and visualization potential of virtual worlds and at the same time attract media attention and bring new people inworld. If we can link to other similarly themed builds to provide a trail or to motivate people to come back, then we are maybe onto to a winner and funding will follow.

Once we are hypergrid-enabled I hope to setup regular (monthly) educator meetings and workshops and I'm certainly happy to direct visitors to high value worlds they can explore in their own time.
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Re: Are we building for nobody?

Post by Selby Evans » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:26 am

Graham Mills wrote:
Hypergrid will bring people in and high profile builds on Kitely get mention in some of the more prominent SL and OpenSim blogs. However, I do wonder whether we also need a Kitely community blog outside the forums that could announce new builds, events and commercial developments in a concise and visually attractive manner. I can't help thinking that we also need to get more machinima artists to visit and use Kitely.

I wonder whether educators and others also need to demonstrate a relevance to external events. Where are the builds commemorating (and just as importantly explaining) the centenary of World War I and the 70th anniversary of D-Day? Where are the builds related to the recently released IPCC climate change report? There are opportunities here to exploit the immersive and visualization potential of virtual worlds and at the same time attract media attention and bring new people inworld. If we can link to other similarly themed builds to provide a trail or to motivate people to come back, then we are maybe onto to a winner and funding will follow.

Once we are hypergrid-enabled I hope to setup regular (monthly) educator meetings and workshops and I'm certainly happy to direct visitors to high value worlds they can explore in their own time.
Good suggstions, Graham. I run a blog and carry Kitely related articles about once a week. I would be glad to help people in Kitely set up a collaborative blog about Kitely builds, features, and events. Here are some articles I have posted to help people get started blogging:
http://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/ ... ng-on.html
http://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/ ... -life.html
http://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/ ... nners.html

I will be interested in posting articles about educator meetings or collaborative blogging in Kitely
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Re: Are we building for nobody?

Post by Constance Peregrine » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:37 am

The problem is always the lack of people in OpenSim, especially related to the amount of lands we can own, rent, or have available.

I do plan on changing up my Kitely specific blog to highlight places to see here once HG is enabled. Currently I have only put a few places at the bottom of the blog and do not mention the blog all that much in social places.

My intention [if I am still alive when HG is enabled here-))] is to move the places I photograph to the top of the blog and add the HG address to the website page for that world. It will then become more of a destinations blog rather than focusing on being somewhat informative, which I do with other grid specific blogs. My focus is on Artistic expression and beauty in region creations, not content things.

Of course, my blog does not get that many kisses [my word for hits] in the first place though I suppose it is more than some others and is directly related to how much I promote it around.

Marketing "whatevers" depends on repeating the message, in several ways, in order to reach different people who have different interests in order to pique that interest enough for them to drop whatever else interests them at the moment to come see. At least related to the net where there is so much going on that people need to find reasons to turn their heads and focus.

A lot of people, when talking up things, tend to stay focused on what "they" think is important and lose sight of the fact, that if they want visitors or people to do something then they need to try and put themselves in those people's shoes.

In any case, I do expect once HG is enabled that folx will be coming in to check things out. I know Metro gets quite a few Metanautes who travel in and out. Still, "quite a few" is a relative thing.

But in any OS grid I have been in, and I have been in most, there is little to no traffic, even in those who hype that they are busy, in reality they are really not...especially if you are talking to people who compare it to SL...where the comparison really should not even be done, imo.

Personally I mostly just do the web social places now but not even all that much and in few places, but even in those I do not see much from Kitely people, but rather from just Ilan, me sometimes, and a couple of others.

So, if one wishes to get visitors they only have themselves to blame for not taking some time to get out in those and talk it up, focusing on interesting and fun things...build excitement and know that until HG is enabled, that is all you are doing in those places, but that has value also.

Whenever I speak about places where my main interests are, it always gets some response either in increased kisses to my blog by those who find it interesting enough to go read more or by visits to the regions highlighted.

The same, of course, holds true of marketing products.

A lot of creators; Artists, of content, of regions, tend to be less able to market what they do very well. Perhaps there is a paying job for someone who can, and who is willing to do so? Not me tho...lol
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Re: Are we building for nobody?

Post by Graham Mills » Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:09 pm

I should add that SL folk in particular are frequently keen to see recommendations made in profile picks if you are loitering in the KWC. It's easy to forget this (or is that just me?)
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Re: Are we building for nobody?

Post by oopsee joseppe » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:49 pm

having owned land for many years in sl from tiny plots to several regions at a time, many with clubs ( a few clubs with traffic count averages of 20-25k per day (one traffic point for every 5 mins an avi resides in the region)). Not a big deal considering the raunchy regions that pandered to more well raunchy interests always had daily counts around 60-80k plus a day. Unfortunately the more creative, artistic builds I ever saw in sl had counts of 3k or less a day and many were just plain empty. I found it was not the build or music content that attracted people. What attracted people was other people. If there were less than 10 avi's present on a 24/7 basis the club or region was empty.
Hold an event with the best dj's, best build, best performance and people will drop in but leave if less than 10 present within a few seconds. I did this for years and the largest complaint i had from store owners or region owners was "I try to generate traffic but fail" then the question "how do I get traffic like you do?". My answer was always the same - have 100's of friends.
Consider that most land owners, store owners, club owners bribe people to come with lucky chairs, hunts, best costume contests. These devices are created with the intent to hold people in the region. The owners pay people to come to increase their search ranking. What they don't realize is that the sl search is skewed to the land barons, big fish retailers etc. The little guy is not on a level playing field. People come for a short time collect the freebies or prizes and leave. They usually don't come back unless paid to as that is the game in sl. Most enterprises in sl are little guys who fail when they stop paying people for attendance. Whatever revenue they earn is largely scooped up by Linden Corp as tier.
In contrast have an empty region of content (bare land) and radio music or no music, no raunch or other entertainment and have in excess of 10 real people avi's present 24/7 and the place becomes a known location to find others and grows with more attendance. This in turn grows more attendance. In a few months this vacant land is crawling with people. Sl is a meet market. No attendance, no meet, no traffic, empty sim. Plenty of no traffic sims in sl. In fact to go exploring one will find most of sl is empty.
Lindens also push traffic to certain locations such as the london sim or other noobie hub/help places. Pretty smart and they prove my point here. People are continuously there (pushed) other long time residents go there and hang out. These places average traffic of 30-80k a day. People hang out at Linden hubs as they know people are there. These are people who own/rent and have their own nice little places too. They go hang out at crappy builds because people are there. So again its the people that attract other people not the build. The regions linden pushes traffic to are not such great interesting builds but people hang out there in droves regularly looking for witty chat or meet up.
The really great, interesting, creative places starve for traffic. When I left sl a few months back many of what I considered "best builds" had closed. What seems to remain are the pushed traffic sims and the raunch.
Lindens nailed it with dating and raunch. This they promote heavily. I saw an ad by sl the other day on some web site I visited "date arab women" with a photo of some attractive, seductive arab lady. I found it appalling.
Inworlds in the beginning had selected people stand in the noob drop area as greeters, helpers, mentors what have you. Day in day out they were there to greet anyone who came to check them out. As a result other inworldz residents would also go there and hang around as they knew "someone" would be there 24/7. Soon this area became a "hang out". Not surprising when new people dropped in there was a group of people kinda hanging around chatting. People would "stick" as there were people present.
in osgrid samo, people congregate in the landing zone. Why what a boring build. Because they know people are there or dropping in soon.
Or, build the best, most creative build ever, advert it, blog it, send the message everywhere with beautiful photo's. Give out freebies, pay to have people stand in the region, do contests. That has been done already and guess what....If you don't believe me go to sl or inworldz, pick up some land and see how easy it is to generate traffic even in grids with thousands inworld (sl 10's of thousands) available to you 24/7.
Want traffic in kitely my suggestion is to make an area, staff it 24/7 and push new people to it. Make it very, very, extremely friendly, witty, sexy, fun, laughing, teasing and easy peasy people will stick. Can even be a vacant region really does not matter but the "meet up" does, it is critical.
So what to build? Better question is where does a person go to hang out and enjoy others? Where to stand and gather to chat, make wit, laugh, show off new fashions etc...
Traffic is not really a problem. The answer is simple. Have real people avi's hang out, one more will come, then another and soon this area will have a reputation for having people there. When that happens traffic accrues without effort.
Agree or not is no matter to me as I have proved it many times.
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Re: Are we building for nobody?

Post by Danko Whitfield » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:44 pm

I'm sitting in my little cabin in SL as I write this. I just spoke with two SL friends whom I hadn't talked to for awhile. As I told them what I was up to these days, both of them made the "I can't go to other worlds because all of my inventory is in SL" argument that we always hear. One of them is a very talented builder who had an account with Kitely last year but left. I told him about the Market selling to other worlds now and about Kitely soon opening to hypergrid travel.

This meant nothing as neither of them had heard the word 'hypergrid' before.

I think what we need right now is a one-stop place for people to learn about HG. Among other things, it should have a one-page, walkthrough for new HGers. And somehow the existence of this site has to be put before the eyes of potential users.

I am well aware of Hyperica and use it myself. At present, it is not the answer. But it could be. A couple of grids have such info on their websites. That's good too but the central clearinghouse type of site is better and necessary.

Lots of things have to happen for us to see more people on Kitely and other grids...this is one of them.
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