Guidance on marketplace export to other grids...

[Marstol Nitely]

I'm trying to get things ready for the marketplace, but I'm not clear on how permissions (other than the minimum requirements I'll have as a merchant to list an item) will work for items that allow export to other grids. I'm not sure if that's something that was decided, but I missed, or something that still has to be figured out? Do items exported retain any sort of permissions or do they revert to full perm?

I'd also like to discuss pros and cons and know what other merchants are thinking. Thanks

[Marstol Nitely]

Hi Marstol,

Marketplace items that have the Export permission will be exportable to an OAR file / other grids. They will retain the same permissions with which you sold them.

That said, once items are transferred outside of Kitely we have no way to prevent people from changing their permissions. If this is an unacceptable risk then I'd advise you to sell your items without the Export permission.

[Ohn Lang]

So say I have a car, and I set the permissions to copy/modify on the car itself, and set the scripts inside it to copy-only, and then set the Export flag to YES.

This means that I allow the item to be exported to an OAR and/or allow Kitely to deliver the item to another grid.

Once exported to an OAR, the car and its scripts retain the permissions I set. However, the person that exported my car to an OAR can then load that OAR to their own priviate OpenSim simulator, over which they have full control (such as soas), and then change the permissions I set in my car to be whatever they want, including copy/modify/transfer on the object and everything in it.

Do I have that right?

If someone purchases my car in the marketplace (in a future where delivery to other grids is possible) to be delivered to OSG for example, the buyer can still export my car into an OAR from their place in OSG.

Is that right too?

You know what would be super cool in that distant future? To be able to choose grids that a product could be delivered to, in addition to being able to decide whether to allow the item to be exportable to a local hard drive.

That way a merchant could choose to export to only specified reputable grids that support content creator protections (like Kitely) and enforce permission settings.

I'd also love to see some sort of "Trusted Grid" network formed in the metaverse, sort of like Verisign is to currency transactions. That network would be made of grids with *proven* commitment to content and permission protection. Acquiring membership would involve being tested for a specified minimum version of simulator software, a set of minimum configurations, and minimum TOS rules. Something like that. Retaining membership would require periodic re-evaluations, submissions of notifications when they change things (ensuring they still meet requirements), membership would be revoked when the grid is found to break membership requirements. Something like that

[Isis Starlight]

Hi Ohn,

If a person imports an OAR file into an OpenSim server where that person has god privileges then that person can change whatever permissions he or she wishes.

Someone with time and a bit of technical know how can also change the permissions in the OAR file itself so that it can be uploaded into a trustworthy grid but with content permissions the person hadn't paid to have.

OSGrid is run on self-hosted OpenSim servers so people can easily take control of anything that enters their sims.

People selling content with the Export permission should assume that there will be unscrupulous people who will use the fact that they can move content outside of Kitely's supervision in order to change the content permissions they paid for. People may be willing to pay more for content that can be exported from Kitely but it is important that merchants understand the risks that are involved with selling exportable items.

A network of trusted grids and the option for fine grain export restrictions should be feasible, but not for the initial marketplace rollout.

[Ohn Lang]

Thanks Ilan. Perfect explanation. And I had absolutely zero expectations of this being part of the initial rollout. I just really like the idea of a trusted network, and especially that it might be feasible to make those fine-grain choices down the road.

Another question

When the marketplace goes live initially, say I put my car in my store there, and I set the permissions to copy/modify only.

Down the road, **IF** fine-grain grid export choices suddenly became available, would I be able to update my car permissions in the store? So that I could then choose to allow delivery to a couple of specific grids?

[Marstol Nitely]

Thanks for explaining Ilan. I know that's been discussed at meetings, but I couldn't remember exactly how it is supposed to work. And thank you Ohn for breaking it down further for me. Your explanations will go a long way in helping me decide which items I do or don't want to allow export on. I like your idea of trusted grids too.

I wonder if that will be less of an issue when (and if) Opensim and the viewers update to retain permissions

[Marstol Nitely]

Hi Ohn,

You'll be able to change your marketplace offerings at any time but content that was already bought will retain the permissions it was sold with.

[Ohn Lang]

That's perfect Ilan. TY

It means that cautious merchants, if they choose, can set permissions conservatively for their initial rollout. Then when new controls become available, can revise product permissions to take advantage of that.

That is really great! Thank you Ilan.

[Ilan Tochner]

Hi Marstol,

OpenSim is an open source project which means that any capable developer can make changes to it and do so in a way that other OpenSim servers wouldn't be able to determine the code was altered. This means that, as long as we allow delivery to untrusted grids, it is expected that someone will be able to take advantage of that fact to modify content permissions inside their own sim.

[Marstol Nitely]

Good to know. Thanks for the info. Ilan.