=Bullies Attacking Kitely and Opensim=

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Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim

Post by Constance Peregrine »

uhoh.....when sunnyone gets goin' it is time to be quiet!!!
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Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim

Post by Lovin Virtualworldz »

Ty Marstol Nitely for the support and acknowledgment of Sunbeam and Duderz treatment by InW. In my whole life (and many know I'm an old foggy by now lol) I have never ever never been asked to leave (In InWorst case not asked just out of the blue I could not log in and no email warning or nothing why) a group. In rl or vw. I'm been a VW player for nearly nine years now and have known of drama and other situations but mostly all other incidents ended friendly. I must tell you what happened to me in InW shocked me to the core and the wound is still there. I had taken quite a interest in promoting InWorldz and soon had a high profile roll by heading and organizing fantastic grid events, helping with grid builds, and mentoring believing I had found a new virtual home after SL ... as Miney said the silver lining to all this is becoming a Gridhopper... and learning about the many and wondrous opportunities out there that are almost drama free. Smiles. Again thank you for the post and remembering Sunbeam and Duderz! The Dude Abides lol TC
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Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim

Post by Constance Peregrine »

Lovin Virtualworldz wrote:Ty Marstol Nitely for the support and acknowledgment of Sunbeam and Duderz treatment by InW. In my whole life (and many know I'm an old foggy by now lol) I have never ever never been asked to leave (In InWorst case not asked just out of the blue I could not log in and no email warning or nothing why) a group. In rl or vw. I'm been a VW player for nearly nine years now and have known of drama and other situations but mostly all other incidents ended friendly. I must tell you what happened to me in InW shocked me to the core and the wound is still there. I had taken quite a interest in promoting InWorldz and soon had a high profile roll by heading and organizing fantastic grid events, helping with grid builds, and mentoring believing I had found a new virtual home after SL ... as Miney said the silver lining to all this is becoming a Gridhopper... and learning about the many and wondrous opportunities out there that are almost drama free. Smiles. Again thank you for the post and remembering Sunbeam and Duderz! The Dude Abides lol TC

you forgot to mention your magazines-))

gosh..you ARE getting old and senile!!!!
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Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim

Post by Marstol Nitely »

No need for thanks Lovin (Sunbeam). I don't like bullies of any ilk and I know enough of your story to know that you were wronged badly. Although it is perfectly understandable, I am very sorry to hear that it still pains you. Perhaps IW should clean up their own shattered house before throwing bricks at other peoples' grids.
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Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim

Post by Constance Peregrine »

Marstol Nitely wrote:No need for thanks Lovin (Sunbeam). I don't like bullies of any ilk and I know enough of your story to know that you were wronged badly. Although it is perfectly understandable, I am very sorry to hear that it still pains you. Perhaps IW should clean up their own shattered house before throwing bricks at other peoples' grids.
I knew most of it. But it has been over a year now for us both, and another I knew, their REAL Miss Inworldz who got her crown taken away very cruelly.

Sunbeam is one of the finest women I know in virtuals, and I am so happy we can communicate and do things together now.

These kinds of things do hurt, and it is sad they are done, the rub in the wounds is having to deal with it over and over again with unkind, uncaring ppl.

But, we both are much better off, and we both have a lot of fun now, and we both will never lose our inventories again..right sunnyone??? hehehehehehe
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Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim

Post by Constance Peregrine »

After thinking on this thread for a few days. I just wanted to do my own final comment here, some thoughts on it.

It should be noted here that this thread contains an example of the overall business model/approach I see the Kitely owners as doing with the entire thing.

Not only was this a non-moderated thread, full of free-flowing ideas, some negative, some positive...but it also had no comments edited, it had no comments removed, it had no threats to be moderated further...and it all ran it's own course as is typical with human beings who have different concepts of reality.

The thread was not locked or threatened to be locked, and I expect it will be left here as long as these forums are here as well...open for further comment even.

We were all treated with respect by the Admins here and treated as Adults.

We were not spoken down to by the Admins, we were not admonished to "play nice", we were not treated as 5 year olds by Admins who feel they somehow know better than we do in how we wish to do and say things...at all.

Even tho, historically, it should be noted this is the first time [that I am aware of] that a thread was commented on from folx who have vested interests in another grid...it was still accepted and NOT moderated.

Tho there have been dissension from ppl who are inside of kitely, and participating, and those treated equally well, that is to be expected from ppl who have different ideas and concepts of how things should be done.

This all has only added to my respect of the Kitely business model of openness, transparency and GIVING ppl more knowledge, rather than doing whatever can be done to not only keep ppl from seeing the realities of what opensim can do, and attempting to keep their residents eyes closed in any ways they can.

Personally, my own interests lie in the free metaverse, but I do see the need for the commercial aspects use of it also. And I am all for this, if it is done well.

Many commercial grids do in fact treat their customers as adults but even so, NO others do what Kitely is doing with the OARs, the MP, the eventual HG access and eventual IARs.

Things easily done but in a commercial aspect/environment require special programming to implement.

So I take from this thread much positive about Kitely.
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Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim

Post by Running Bear »

Jim Tarber wrote:
Ilan Tochner wrote:It's indeed very sad that the owners of other girds make misinformed statements regarding our intentions or our system's capabilities. Specifically, the disparaging comments made by Inworldz employees regarding non-Inworldz grid owners being unrespective of content creators intellectual property rights.
I looked at the thread in question and it seems to me that since the founders barely said anything, you must be referring to me. I'm a bit confused by that; as far as I know, I was factual referring to the lack of RFC/documentation/peer review and that there were bugs in the OpenSim permissions implementation, again just fact from my work on permissions. That we would not be able to trust the permissions enforcement of items passed to the hypergrid should be easily seen as a technical fact as well. Can you confirm that you are referring to these comments of mine? Other than a very short non-specific comment by Elenia, I am the only staff member to comment in that thread. Which comments did you see as disparaging Kitely?

At no time did I disparage Kitely; in fact I didn't even mention Kitely. In fact, other than the question in the original posting, Kitely wasn't even mentioned in the entire thread. It certainly wasn't mentioned by InWorldz owners/founders or staff. The most disparaging comment in either thread from one grid towards another grid is yours above.

Is it really so bad that someone asks InWorldz folks, in the InWorldz forum: "I have read that closed grids Avination & Kitely will open up to hypergate or is Inworldz just staying on its own road?" That was the only mention of Kitely.

Is it so bad that we actually give an honest reply that we did not consider HyperGrid to be mature enough yet? I'm not sure really how that is any different than your answer to date. I think you have reached the same conclusion. So I think the original question was valid, and the responses accurate, and was just part of being transparent with residents, in their own discussion forum.

But because of my intimacy with the permissions code, I specifically avoided mentioning anything beyond the fact that there were plenty of bugs in the OpenSim permissions code, and that therefore in it's current form, I would not ever recommend connecting InWorldz to it. If you think that is technically inaccurate, I can provide a bit more detail where you will be able to see what I'm referring to, without exposing vulnerabilities.

Also, to be clear, I have nothing but huge respect for both you and Kitely. Kitely is the best shining example of trying to take the standard OpenSim code and deploy it in a professionally-managed production environment, while also providing some Kitely enhancements it in the areas that need it most. I'm very impressed by what you have been able to do with it, and with your professionalism and transparency.

However this thread goes way off the rails. The fact that you have not condemned (or removed) the libelous comment from "Jane Doe" is disappointing to say the least.
Jane Doe wrote:Also they admit sending employees to SL to data mine there server stream to try to mimic standards to use in inworldz in real life that's called Corporate Espionage
No "Jane", that is called "reverse engineering", and was the primary method used to create OpenSim in the first place, and the OpenMetaverse libraries it is based on. The fact that I go into SL to compare behavior and ensure that InWorldz is as compatible as possible is just part of the job. In fact it's absolutely critical in order for the viewer to function correctly, since it effectively "speaks SL". So we have to make sure we respond in ways it understands. I hope OpenSim and Kitely do the same thing when there is some question about what normal grid behavior is.

Your use of "data mine" here is a feeble attempt to disparage and slander InWorldz. InWorldz does not "data mine", anywhere. It does not "spy" on other grids either. Frankly, we hope other grids are successful too, since I think when one grid grows, the whole virtual world industry benefits (eventually). I firmly believe that virtual worlds can accomplish a lot, and I see both InWorldz and Kitely as players on the same overall team. Comparing them is like comparing two leading goal-scoring hockey players on the same team; hopefully a little bit of overlapping competition helps both stay sharp and get better. We all win.

This part bothers me "However this thread goes way off the rails. The fact that you have not condemned (or removed) the libelous comment from "Jane Doe" is disappointing to say the least."

Just to be fair Jim you might not know who Maria was but she was a resident in your grid and a soon to be mother also was a dear family member of ours
a long time elder who could bring smiles to those in the valley of tears but she has departed the earth the great spirit called another angel home,
the end of her days she had lost her real life new born child to a drunk driver and suffered heavy grief this I know I tried to be a big shoulder for her to lean on,
she seemed to try to live in online to get away from the pain of real life and the fact she could never walk again but cruel intent can have no borders,
Maria was a very open person and tried to talk the pain away to those she thought were friends but the last week of her life online she would find dead baby dolls filling her sim when she logged in to a sim filled with dead baby pictures always by someone with the last name offcourse even with build and scripts turned off
and sim wiped clean I believe these very acts of being bullied pushed her over the edge and nothing was done to stop it even restricting sim access,
You Jim have a lot of nerve coming here trying to put everyone back into your 'mental reservation' this is all I will have to say facts I know for certain
and to respect my wife Dakota and other residents I will limit further pain in written words about our hard and undignified lives we lead in that inworldz in the hands of the Gridman :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MV0UfN1mvk
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Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim

Post by Constance Peregrine »

I found this incredibly sad Running Bear.

I don't know if you knew of me when I was there but I wanted you to know some of us know of the meanness there and support you.

I wonder if the name you mentioned "offcourse" had the first name of "biker"....no need to answer but I knew someone there with that name.

In any case, big hugs to you and yours. I hope you find virtual peace with Kitely-))
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Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim

Post by Olivia Lothiriel »

Running Bear wrote:
Jim Tarber wrote:
Ilan Tochner wrote:It's indeed very sad that the owners of other girds make misinformed statements regarding our intentions or our system's capabilities. Specifically, the disparaging comments made by Inworldz employees regarding non-Inworldz grid owners being unrespective of content creators intellectual property rights.
I looked at the thread in question and it seems to me that since the founders barely said anything, you must be referring to me. I'm a bit confused by that; as far as I know, I was factual referring to the lack of RFC/documentation/peer review and that there were bugs in the OpenSim permissions implementation, again just fact from my work on permissions. That we would not be able to trust the permissions enforcement of items passed to the hypergrid should be easily seen as a technical fact as well. Can you confirm that you are referring to these comments of mine? Other than a very short non-specific comment by Elenia, I am the only staff member to comment in that thread. Which comments did you see as disparaging Kitely?

At no time did I disparage Kitely; in fact I didn't even mention Kitely. In fact, other than the question in the original posting, Kitely wasn't even mentioned in the entire thread. It certainly wasn't mentioned by InWorldz owners/founders or staff. The most disparaging comment in either thread from one grid towards another grid is yours above.

Is it really so bad that someone asks InWorldz folks, in the InWorldz forum: "I have read that closed grids Avination & Kitely will open up to hypergate or is Inworldz just staying on its own road?" That was the only mention of Kitely.

Is it so bad that we actually give an honest reply that we did not consider HyperGrid to be mature enough yet? I'm not sure really how that is any different than your answer to date. I think you have reached the same conclusion. So I think the original question was valid, and the responses accurate, and was just part of being transparent with residents, in their own discussion forum.

But because of my intimacy with the permissions code, I specifically avoided mentioning anything beyond the fact that there were plenty of bugs in the OpenSim permissions code, and that therefore in it's current form, I would not ever recommend connecting InWorldz to it. If you think that is technically inaccurate, I can provide a bit more detail where you will be able to see what I'm referring to, without exposing vulnerabilities.

Also, to be clear, I have nothing but huge respect for both you and Kitely. Kitely is the best shining example of trying to take the standard OpenSim code and deploy it in a professionally-managed production environment, while also providing some Kitely enhancements it in the areas that need it most. I'm very impressed by what you have been able to do with it, and with your professionalism and transparency.

However this thread goes way off the rails. The fact that you have not condemned (or removed) the libelous comment from "Jane Doe" is disappointing to say the least.
Jane Doe wrote:Also they admit sending employees to SL to data mine there server stream to try to mimic standards to use in inworldz in real life that's called Corporate Espionage
No "Jane", that is called "reverse engineering", and was the primary method used to create OpenSim in the first place, and the OpenMetaverse libraries it is based on. The fact that I go into SL to compare behavior and ensure that InWorldz is as compatible as possible is just part of the job. In fact it's absolutely critical in order for the viewer to function correctly, since it effectively "speaks SL". So we have to make sure we respond in ways it understands. I hope OpenSim and Kitely do the same thing when there is some question about what normal grid behavior is.

Your use of "data mine" here is a feeble attempt to disparage and slander InWorldz. InWorldz does not "data mine", anywhere. It does not "spy" on other grids either. Frankly, we hope other grids are successful too, since I think when one grid grows, the whole virtual world industry benefits (eventually). I firmly believe that virtual worlds can accomplish a lot, and I see both InWorldz and Kitely as players on the same overall team. Comparing them is like comparing two leading goal-scoring hockey players on the same team; hopefully a little bit of overlapping competition helps both stay sharp and get better. We all win.

This part bothers me "However this thread goes way off the rails. The fact that you have not condemned (or removed) the libelous comment from "Jane Doe" is disappointing to say the least."

Just to be fair Jim you might not know who Maria was but she was a resident in your grid and a soon to be mother also was a dear family member of ours
a long time elder who could bring smiles to those in the valley of tears but she has departed the earth the great spirit called another angel home,
the end of her days she had lost her real life new born child to a drunk driver and suffered heavy grief this I know I tried to be a big shoulder for her to lean on,
she seemed to try to live in online to get away from the pain of real life and the fact she could never walk again but cruel intent can have no borders,
Maria was a very open person and tried to talk the pain away to those she thought were friends but the last week of her life online she would find dead baby dolls filling her sim when she logged in to a sim filled with dead baby pictures always by someone with the last name offcourse even with build and scripts turned off
and sim wiped clean I believe these very acts of being bullied pushed her over the edge and nothing was done to stop it even restricting sim access,
You Jim have a lot of nerve coming here trying to put everyone back into your 'mental reservation' this is all I will have to say facts I know for certain
and to respect my wife Dakota and other residents I will limit further pain in written words about our hard and undignified lives we lead in that inworldz in the hands of the Gridman :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MV0UfN1mvk

Do not grieve for your friend but celebrate her life just remember Karma will deal the right hand,
As for Kitely they offer great pricing and great customer service so the work speaks for itself :P
Inworldz coming here show's a lack of confidence in what they can offer, so if they return lets just pretend they are cartoon monkeys jumping up and down trying to make us lough :P
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Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim

Post by Constance Peregrine »

inwz is not doing very well at all...as i have said in other places their business model of being a standard sl clone [despite what some there would have some ppl believe] is a fad that is passing.

As kitely is innovating and keeping up with current OS development...it is, imo, the goto grid for those commercially oriented...and in fact, even for those who like the free opensim grids as their pricing is in line with those also.

The trend is to rent regions for lower costs due to the lower costings of server use.

I do expect others will copycat some of the concepts Kitely is doing, or, they will go away, eventually.

Once Kitely opens to the hypergates and the rest of the Metaverse this grid will boom big time....watch and see-)))
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