=Bullies Attacking Kitely and Opensim=

[Jim Tarber]

Hi Jeremiah,

We don't hate Inworldz, I've talked to David Daeschler several times in the past and i quite like the guy. I don't think I've ever said anything negative about his company. The reason I liked the comments that were written by some of our users in this thread is that they showed appreciation for Kitely, not because they were critical of Inworldz or any other virtual world provider.

[Jeremiah Leitner]

Why the hate for InWorldz?

Seriously, is Kitely that insecure?

Hey jeremiah..long time no see-))

I don't hate, personally, just speak to reality is all.

I am here as a pro-kitely supporter, mostly....lol

You're speaking personal opinion, not reality.

So I'll do the same.

I've tried Kitely, the SL/IMVU clone. I didn't like it. Sure, there's some good ideas, but they're poorly implemented for the most part.

Mr. Tochner is on top of customer relations, I do agree there. He has to be to put a good face on a less-than-useful service. Fortunately, with such a low number of active users on Kitely, he can do this with ease.

I'll stop here.

See what I did?

I took my opinion - not liking Kitely - and used it to bash Kitely. It served no point and made me look childish. It goes the same for you guys bashing InWorldz. And corporate espionage? Come on. Grow up. That just makes Kitely as a whole look insecure and pathetic.

It's fine not to like InWorldz, or any other grid. But be mature about it. New users are always watching, and they judge a grid based on it's current users.

I personally prefer InWorldz to Kitely. That's all.

[Jeremiah Leitner]

Hi Jeremiah,

We don't hate Inworldz, I've talked to David Daeschler several times in the past and i quite like the guy. I don't think I've ever said anything negative about his company. The reason I liked the comments that were written by some of our users in this thread is that they showed appreciation for Kitely, not because they were critical of Inworldz or any other virtual world provider.

And I do wish Kitely the best. There is room in the metaverse for many grids.

[Jane Doe]

Why the hate for InWorldz?

Seriously, is Kitely that insecure?

Hey jeremiah..long time no see-))

I don't hate, personally, just speak to reality is all.

I am here as a pro-kitely supporter, mostly....lol

You're speaking personal opinion, not reality.

So I'll do the same.

I've tried Kitely, the SL/IMVU clone. I didn't like it. Sure, there's some good ideas, but they're poorly implemented for the most part.

Mr. Tochner is on top of customer relations, I do agree there. He has to be to put a good face on a less-than-useful service. Fortunately, with such a low number of active users on Kitely, he can do this with ease.

I'll stop here.

See what I did?

I took my opinion - not liking Kitely - and used it to bash Kitely. It served no point and made me look childish. It goes the same for you guys bashing InWorldz. And corporate espionage? Come on. Grow up. That just makes Kitely as a whole look insecure and pathetic.

It's fine not to like InWorldz, or any other grid. But be mature about it. New users are always watching, and they judge a grid based on it's current users.

I personally prefer InWorldz to Kitely. That's all.

Yes just another inworldz founder drone & royalist as anytime anyone disagrees with inworldz in any forum they send there forum thugs to try to shame & quiet them
my facts are from what there employees have stated and founders of inworldz has stated !
Also from experience my region was there paid for on the 10th of march on march 15th I went into hospital I returned on 21st my region had been deleted
as a Mistake! how do you make mistakes like that? or was it because I spoke out against the ruling royal class.

My last post on this but nothing I have said is make fantasy!
BTW the numbers games is a old linden tactic glad to see it embraced by inworldz LOL

[Jeremiah Leitner]

[quote=Yes just another inworldz founder drone & royalist as anytime anyone disagrees with inworldz in any forum they send there forum thugs to try to shame & quiet them
my facts are from what there employees have stated and founders of inworldz has stated !
Also from experience my region was there paid for on the 10th of march on march 15th I went into hospital I returned on 21st my region had been deleted
as a Mistake! how do you make mistakes like that? or was it because I spoke out against the ruling royal class.

My last post on this but nothing I have said is make fantasy!
BTW the numbers games is a old linden tactic glad to see it embraced by inworldz LOL [/quote]

You certainly have a unique point of view.

Can you back up your "facts" with actual, verifiable evidence?

[Jim Tarber]

It's indeed very sad that the owners of other girds make misinformed statements regarding our intentions or our system's capabilities. Specifically, the disparaging comments made by Inworldz employees regarding non-Inworldz grid owners being unrespective of content creators intellectual property rights.

I looked at the thread in question and it seems to me that since the founders barely said anything, you must be referring to me. I'm a bit confused by that; as far as I know, I was factual referring to the lack of RFC/documentation/peer review and that there were bugs in the OpenSim permissions implementation, again just fact from my work on permissions. That we would not be able to trust the permissions enforcement of items passed to the hypergrid should be easily seen as a technical fact as well. Can you confirm that you are referring to these comments of mine? Other than a very short non-specific comment by Elenia, I am the only staff member to comment in that thread. Which comments did you see as disparaging Kitely?

At no time did I disparage Kitely; in fact I didn't even mention Kitely. In fact, other than the question in the original posting, Kitely wasn't even mentioned in the entire thread. It certainly wasn't mentioned by InWorldz owners/founders or staff. The most disparaging comment in either thread from one grid towards another grid is yours above.

Is it really so bad that someone asks InWorldz folks, in the InWorldz forum: "I have read that closed grids Avination & Kitely will open up to hypergate or is Inworldz just staying on its own road?" That was the only mention of Kitely.

Is it so bad that we actually give an honest reply that we did not consider HyperGrid to be mature enough yet? I'm not sure really how that is any different than your answer to date. I think you have reached the same conclusion. So I think the original question was valid, and the responses accurate, and was just part of being transparent with residents, in their own discussion forum.

But because of my intimacy with the permissions code, I specifically avoided mentioning anything beyond the fact that there were plenty of bugs in the OpenSim permissions code, and that therefore in it's current form, I would not ever recommend connecting InWorldz to it. If you think that is technically inaccurate, I can provide a bit more detail where you will be able to see what I'm referring to, without exposing vulnerabilities.

Also, to be clear, I have nothing but huge respect for both you and Kitely. Kitely is the best shining example of trying to take the standard OpenSim code and deploy it in a professionally-managed production environment, while also providing some Kitely enhancements it in the areas that need it most. I'm very impressed by what you have been able to do with it, and with your professionalism and transparency.

However this thread goes way off the rails. The fact that you have not condemned (or removed) the libelous comment from "Jane Doe" is disappointing to say the least.

Also they admit sending employees to SL to data mine there server stream to try to mimic standards to use in inworldz in real life that's called Corporate Espionage

No "Jane", that is called "reverse engineering", and was the primary method used to create OpenSim in the first place, and the OpenMetaverse libraries it is based on. The fact that I go into SL to compare behavior and ensure that InWorldz is as compatible as possible is just part of the job. In fact it's absolutely critical in order for the viewer to function correctly, since it effectively "speaks SL". So we have to make sure we respond in ways it understands. I hope OpenSim and Kitely do the same thing when there is some question about what normal grid behavior is.

Your use of "data mine" here is a feeble attempt to disparage and slander InWorldz. InWorldz does not "data mine", anywhere. It does not "spy" on other grids either. Frankly, we hope other grids are successful too, since I think when one grid grows, the whole virtual world industry benefits (eventually). I firmly believe that virtual worlds can accomplish a lot, and I see both InWorldz and Kitely as players on the same overall team. Comparing them is like comparing two leading goal-scoring hockey players on the same team; hopefully a little bit of overlapping competition helps both stay sharp and get better. We all win.

[Constance Peregrine]

Can you back up your "facts" with actual, verifiable evidence?

I can, but I won't....at least not in the "Kitely" forums.

Jeremiah, I remember you as a nice guy...what has happened since then that you feel the need to come to another grid's forums and try to stir up troubles, dis them, and promote your fave grid atm?

Granted, nobody can do the same in the inwz forums, and kitely is a free grid where opposing opinions, so far, are not squashed immediately, if they were even allowed to post them in the first place, so ppl can do this, but, should they?

Are you even aware of all the ppl who have had their inwz forums access removed? Do you even care? What excuses do you have?

Try not to be so negative..if you like inwz so much, why are you even here posting in this one thread? what does it even matter? Go post in the inwz forums how great they are....you will get many pats on the back.

Keep paying too much for regions there, it is ok, it really is-))

I find this sad, but, unfortunately, typical...I wonder who pointed you here? I always find that kinda thing interesting.

Enjoy inwz....personally, I want it to stay alive, so some ppl won't bother us in other grids...seems a win-win, to me-))

ah...and now I know more....lol...this is amusing... am not sure what you ppl expect to accomplish here, don't you have things to do???? so someone did point you all to this...fascinating...

[Jim Tarber]

Jeremiah, I remember you as a nice guy...what has happened since then that you feel the need to come to another grid's forums and try to stir up troubles, dis them, and promote your fave grid atm?

Why do you feel the need to go to every place in the metaverse that mentions InWorldz and post such continuous disparaging and misleading remarks about that grid? You say you don't really care, but seem to have made it your career. Remember, that Jeremiah (and me too) only responded after the seriously confused and inaccurate slander by Jane Doe, attacking InWorldz here. (I wonder who she can be?) In fact, I had to register in these forums, it's my first visit since deleting my Facebook account many months ago. Do you really think it's okay for people to say things like that without expecting someone to defend against such unwarranted slander? Please join with me in condemning that kind of talk. Let's work together and promote the metaverse.

[Constance Peregrine]

Jeremiah, I remember you as a nice guy...what has happened since then that you feel the need to come to another grid's forums and try to stir up troubles, dis them, and promote your fave grid atm?

Why do you feel the need to go to every place in the metaverse that mentions InWorldz and post such continuous disparaging and misleading remarks about that grid? You say you don't really care, but seem to have made it your career. Remember, that Jeremiah (and me too) only responded after the seriously confused and inaccurate slander by Jane Doe, attacking InWorldz here. (I wonder who she can be?) In fact, I had to register in these forums, it's my first visit since deleting my Facebook account many months ago. Do you really think it's okay for people to say things like that without expecting someone to defend against such unwarranted slander? Please join with me in condemning that kind of talk. Let's work together and promote the metaverse.

That is only your limited perception Jim....i would imagine if i counted what i say about inwz, it would amt to maybe 1 word in 500 or so...and often simply one or 2 when i do mention it.

As I am not near the places you are jim, I have no clue why you keep saying this when you do find me commenting? I am not in many social sites at all, actually...3 mainly, and some others I only read. I have things to do, don't you?

I have no clue who Jane is, nor do I care, just like I never cared about the inwz trolls who pop up in various places being their typical mean and saying all sorts of nasty things to me...they do not matter.

The problem is this happens all too often...and I think you ppl should leave the rest of us alone, stop thinking so samishly, the world does not revolve around your grid, and it never will.

I never use that word slander as it is overused, and typically thrown out by those who wish to squash valid opinions. It never effected me and it should not effect whomever Jane is...because, this is NOT the inwz forums, this is the Kitely forums..and some ppl enjoy freedom, some enjoy having others control them.

I do condemn those who try to walk all over people using words and spouting slander, which equals sueing, which is utter nonsense.

As to the metaverse, it is doing very well, and without inwz...keep hg closed there, please-))

[Jim Tarber]

The problem is this happens all too often...and I think you ppl should leave the rest of us alone, stop thinking so samishly, the world does not revolve around your grid, and it never will.

I would love to leave Kitely to Kitely users (of which I used to be one), but this thread is all about InWorldz and attacks the moral reputation of that grid and therefore I don't see a damned thing wrong with stepping in correct the misinformation, or to let Ilan know that I didn't mean anything disparaging towards Kitely if there was anything I said that indirectly implied that.