Re: Another Linden bully? Attacking Kitely and Opensim
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:15 pm
uhoh.....when sunnyone gets goin' it is time to be quiet!!!
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Lovin Virtualworldz wrote:Ty Marstol Nitely for the support and acknowledgment of Sunbeam and Duderz treatment by InW. In my whole life (and many know I'm an old foggy by now lol) I have never ever never been asked to leave (In InWorst case not asked just out of the blue I could not log in and no email warning or nothing why) a group. In rl or vw. I'm been a VW player for nearly nine years now and have known of drama and other situations but mostly all other incidents ended friendly. I must tell you what happened to me in InW shocked me to the core and the wound is still there. I had taken quite a interest in promoting InWorldz and soon had a high profile roll by heading and organizing fantastic grid events, helping with grid builds, and mentoring believing I had found a new virtual home after SL ... as Miney said the silver lining to all this is becoming a Gridhopper... and learning about the many and wondrous opportunities out there that are almost drama free. Smiles. Again thank you for the post and remembering Sunbeam and Duderz! The Dude Abides lol TC
I knew most of it. But it has been over a year now for us both, and another I knew, their REAL Miss Inworldz who got her crown taken away very cruelly.Marstol Nitely wrote:No need for thanks Lovin (Sunbeam). I don't like bullies of any ilk and I know enough of your story to know that you were wronged badly. Although it is perfectly understandable, I am very sorry to hear that it still pains you. Perhaps IW should clean up their own shattered house before throwing bricks at other peoples' grids.
Jim Tarber wrote:I looked at the thread in question and it seems to me that since the founders barely said anything, you must be referring to me. I'm a bit confused by that; as far as I know, I was factual referring to the lack of RFC/documentation/peer review and that there were bugs in the OpenSim permissions implementation, again just fact from my work on permissions. That we would not be able to trust the permissions enforcement of items passed to the hypergrid should be easily seen as a technical fact as well. Can you confirm that you are referring to these comments of mine? Other than a very short non-specific comment by Elenia, I am the only staff member to comment in that thread. Which comments did you see as disparaging Kitely?Ilan Tochner wrote:It's indeed very sad that the owners of other girds make misinformed statements regarding our intentions or our system's capabilities. Specifically, the disparaging comments made by Inworldz employees regarding non-Inworldz grid owners being unrespective of content creators intellectual property rights.
At no time did I disparage Kitely; in fact I didn't even mention Kitely. In fact, other than the question in the original posting, Kitely wasn't even mentioned in the entire thread. It certainly wasn't mentioned by InWorldz owners/founders or staff. The most disparaging comment in either thread from one grid towards another grid is yours above.
Is it really so bad that someone asks InWorldz folks, in the InWorldz forum: "I have read that closed grids Avination & Kitely will open up to hypergate or is Inworldz just staying on its own road?" That was the only mention of Kitely.
Is it so bad that we actually give an honest reply that we did not consider HyperGrid to be mature enough yet? I'm not sure really how that is any different than your answer to date. I think you have reached the same conclusion. So I think the original question was valid, and the responses accurate, and was just part of being transparent with residents, in their own discussion forum.
But because of my intimacy with the permissions code, I specifically avoided mentioning anything beyond the fact that there were plenty of bugs in the OpenSim permissions code, and that therefore in it's current form, I would not ever recommend connecting InWorldz to it. If you think that is technically inaccurate, I can provide a bit more detail where you will be able to see what I'm referring to, without exposing vulnerabilities.
Also, to be clear, I have nothing but huge respect for both you and Kitely. Kitely is the best shining example of trying to take the standard OpenSim code and deploy it in a professionally-managed production environment, while also providing some Kitely enhancements it in the areas that need it most. I'm very impressed by what you have been able to do with it, and with your professionalism and transparency.
However this thread goes way off the rails. The fact that you have not condemned (or removed) the libelous comment from "Jane Doe" is disappointing to say the least.
No "Jane", that is called "reverse engineering", and was the primary method used to create OpenSim in the first place, and the OpenMetaverse libraries it is based on. The fact that I go into SL to compare behavior and ensure that InWorldz is as compatible as possible is just part of the job. In fact it's absolutely critical in order for the viewer to function correctly, since it effectively "speaks SL". So we have to make sure we respond in ways it understands. I hope OpenSim and Kitely do the same thing when there is some question about what normal grid behavior is.Jane Doe wrote:Also they admit sending employees to SL to data mine there server stream to try to mimic standards to use in inworldz in real life that's called Corporate Espionage
Your use of "data mine" here is a feeble attempt to disparage and slander InWorldz. InWorldz does not "data mine", anywhere. It does not "spy" on other grids either. Frankly, we hope other grids are successful too, since I think when one grid grows, the whole virtual world industry benefits (eventually). I firmly believe that virtual worlds can accomplish a lot, and I see both InWorldz and Kitely as players on the same overall team. Comparing them is like comparing two leading goal-scoring hockey players on the same team; hopefully a little bit of overlapping competition helps both stay sharp and get better. We all win.
Running Bear wrote:Jim Tarber wrote:I looked at the thread in question and it seems to me that since the founders barely said anything, you must be referring to me. I'm a bit confused by that; as far as I know, I was factual referring to the lack of RFC/documentation/peer review and that there were bugs in the OpenSim permissions implementation, again just fact from my work on permissions. That we would not be able to trust the permissions enforcement of items passed to the hypergrid should be easily seen as a technical fact as well. Can you confirm that you are referring to these comments of mine? Other than a very short non-specific comment by Elenia, I am the only staff member to comment in that thread. Which comments did you see as disparaging Kitely?Ilan Tochner wrote:It's indeed very sad that the owners of other girds make misinformed statements regarding our intentions or our system's capabilities. Specifically, the disparaging comments made by Inworldz employees regarding non-Inworldz grid owners being unrespective of content creators intellectual property rights.
At no time did I disparage Kitely; in fact I didn't even mention Kitely. In fact, other than the question in the original posting, Kitely wasn't even mentioned in the entire thread. It certainly wasn't mentioned by InWorldz owners/founders or staff. The most disparaging comment in either thread from one grid towards another grid is yours above.
Is it really so bad that someone asks InWorldz folks, in the InWorldz forum: "I have read that closed grids Avination & Kitely will open up to hypergate or is Inworldz just staying on its own road?" That was the only mention of Kitely.
Is it so bad that we actually give an honest reply that we did not consider HyperGrid to be mature enough yet? I'm not sure really how that is any different than your answer to date. I think you have reached the same conclusion. So I think the original question was valid, and the responses accurate, and was just part of being transparent with residents, in their own discussion forum.
But because of my intimacy with the permissions code, I specifically avoided mentioning anything beyond the fact that there were plenty of bugs in the OpenSim permissions code, and that therefore in it's current form, I would not ever recommend connecting InWorldz to it. If you think that is technically inaccurate, I can provide a bit more detail where you will be able to see what I'm referring to, without exposing vulnerabilities.
Also, to be clear, I have nothing but huge respect for both you and Kitely. Kitely is the best shining example of trying to take the standard OpenSim code and deploy it in a professionally-managed production environment, while also providing some Kitely enhancements it in the areas that need it most. I'm very impressed by what you have been able to do with it, and with your professionalism and transparency.
However this thread goes way off the rails. The fact that you have not condemned (or removed) the libelous comment from "Jane Doe" is disappointing to say the least.
No "Jane", that is called "reverse engineering", and was the primary method used to create OpenSim in the first place, and the OpenMetaverse libraries it is based on. The fact that I go into SL to compare behavior and ensure that InWorldz is as compatible as possible is just part of the job. In fact it's absolutely critical in order for the viewer to function correctly, since it effectively "speaks SL". So we have to make sure we respond in ways it understands. I hope OpenSim and Kitely do the same thing when there is some question about what normal grid behavior is.Jane Doe wrote:Also they admit sending employees to SL to data mine there server stream to try to mimic standards to use in inworldz in real life that's called Corporate Espionage
Your use of "data mine" here is a feeble attempt to disparage and slander InWorldz. InWorldz does not "data mine", anywhere. It does not "spy" on other grids either. Frankly, we hope other grids are successful too, since I think when one grid grows, the whole virtual world industry benefits (eventually). I firmly believe that virtual worlds can accomplish a lot, and I see both InWorldz and Kitely as players on the same overall team. Comparing them is like comparing two leading goal-scoring hockey players on the same team; hopefully a little bit of overlapping competition helps both stay sharp and get better. We all win.
This part bothers me "However this thread goes way off the rails. The fact that you have not condemned (or removed) the libelous comment from "Jane Doe" is disappointing to say the least."
Just to be fair Jim you might not know who Maria was but she was a resident in your grid and a soon to be mother also was a dear family member of ours
a long time elder who could bring smiles to those in the valley of tears but she has departed the earth the great spirit called another angel home,
the end of her days she had lost her real life new born child to a drunk driver and suffered heavy grief this I know I tried to be a big shoulder for her to lean on,
she seemed to try to live in online to get away from the pain of real life and the fact she could never walk again but cruel intent can have no borders,
Maria was a very open person and tried to talk the pain away to those she thought were friends but the last week of her life online she would find dead baby dolls filling her sim when she logged in to a sim filled with dead baby pictures always by someone with the last name offcourse even with build and scripts turned off
and sim wiped clean I believe these very acts of being bullied pushed her over the edge and nothing was done to stop it even restricting sim access,
You Jim have a lot of nerve coming here trying to put everyone back into your 'mental reservation' this is all I will have to say facts I know for certain
and to respect my wife Dakota and other residents I will limit further pain in written words about our hard and undignified lives we lead in that inworldz in the hands of the Gridman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... MV0UfN1mvk