Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

[Serene Jewell]

I know that Kitely only upgrades to tested, stable versions of the opensimulator software. That is one of my favorite things about being a Kitely resident. But I find this report from Aine Caoimhe to be pretty disturbing.

http://ainetutorials.blogspot.com/2016/ ... im-09.html

Caoimhe is a long-time developer who scripts some of the most used objects in opensim. If it's true that danceballs and sits and NPCs are all going to be broken in 0.9, at the very least Kitely merchants and residents need as much lead time as possible to prepare for that.

I'm not interested in worrying about things unnecessarily. I guess I'd just like to hear the scuttlebutt about where the core developers are in regards to this problem. I don't hang out with the core developers, so maybe some of you have heard something useful/scary/reassuring.

Are we so early in the 0.9 dev process that this stuff will all get fixed? Do the devs even know or care about it? Is OSGrid running the 0.9 dev branch right now? Is there a projected timetable for 0.9 stable release? What's the story?

Just wondering.

[Shandon Loring]

Hi Serene,

I just want to reassure anyone reading this thread that Kitely is in no hurry to upgrade to OpenSim 0.9.0. We'll only do so after it has been officially released and then tested on other grids for a sufficient amount of time to indicate that it is worth upgrading to.

Kitely doesn't experiment on its users, we aim to provide a stable service you can rely on.

[Dot Matrix]

That is reassuring to know for those of us on Kitely grid, Ilan. Thank you.

However, the main point is that OpenSim 0.9.0 breaks a great deal of current, popular tools and content, as Aine's last paragraph makes clear:

... these exact same changes will break all existing MLP systems, all furniture/items that have sit targets or use position scripts, and all scripts that involve rezzing NPCs (eg. Ferd's excellent NPC controller system). It's not just the content I created that's being trashed...it's a very, very large percentage of commonly used objects.

This will apply to items available on Kitely Market sold to users on other grids that might have moved to OpenSim 0.9. What should those creators do?

[Deuce Halsey]

That is reassuring to know for those of us on Kitely grid, Ilan. Thank you.

However, the main point is that OpenSim 0.9.0 breaks a great deal of current, popular tools and content, as Aine's last paragraph makes clear:

... these exact same changes will break all existing MLP systems, all furniture/items that have sit targets or use position scripts, and all scripts that involve rezzing NPCs (eg. Ferd's excellent NPC controller system). It's not just the content I created that's being trashed...it's a very, very large percentage of commonly used objects.

This will apply to items available on Kitely Market sold to users on other grids that might have moved to OpenSim 0.9. What should those creators do?

I don't sell any scripted items on Kitely Market. If I did, I would quickly add a disclaimer to my listings for those products stating that support for OpenSim 0.9 will not be provided for my products until the new release is stabilized (by which I mean when Kitely adopts the new version for its grid).

Another point: Anyone using scripted attachments as they travel the Hypergrid should be aware that OpenSim 0.9 is already popping up on commonly-used regions on other grids. For instance I visited Wright Plaza on OSGrid last night and that region is already running OS 0.9! I had no problems there, but I don't use scripted attachments.

Let the Hypergrfid traveller beware.

[Ilan Tochner]

I agree with Deuce, if you're selling scripted objects that don't yet work with OpenSim 0.9.0 then add a disclaimer to the Kitely Market product listings that include those scripts.

It is very likely that most of these script issues will be resolved before OpenSim 0.9.0 is released so I'd take that into consideration before spending time to create workarounds for what is currently an early development branch.

[Serene Jewell]

It is very likely that most of these script issues will be resolved before OpenSim 0.9.0 is released so I'd take that into consideration before spending time to create workarounds for what is currently an early development branch.

Glad to hear that, Ilan. The folks over in the conversation at Opensim Virtual don't seem so confident. Hopefully the devs will reassure people about NPCs because educators are already starting to work with them and they are not amused by the idea that their work will be broken.

Here's the Opensim convo: https://plus.google.com/114092393572298 ... FZGseuGYeC

[Ilan Tochner]

I can't speak for other core developers Serene, but I doubt that core group members such as Crista Lopes, who have protected the interests of educators in the past, will be happy with a new OpenSim release that breaks OSSL functionality that educators have been relying on. That said, it may take time until all these functionality regressions are addressed which is one of the reasons why we are taking a wait-and-see approach regarding these massive code changes in OpenSim 0.9.0. It may be quite some time until that OpenSim development branch is stabilized and officially released, and yet more time after that before it merits upgrading to.

[Dot Matrix]

Here's the Opensim convo: https://plus.google.com/114092393572298 ... FZGseuGYeC

I'm getting a 403 error with this link.

403. That’s an error.

We're sorry, but you do not have access to this page. That’s all we know.

[Serene Jewell]

Not sure what happened with that link.

The conversation is in G+ Opensim Virtual at https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities ... 2234467612
The specific conversation is https://plus.google.com/114092393572298 ... FZGseuGYeC

There is an opensim developers meeting today at 11am PT at Wright Plaza on OSGrid. They are open to all. I suspect the topic will come up, but you never know. hg.osgrid.org:80:Wright Plaza

I really appreciate that Kitely is so careful about stability and upgrades, Ilan. I think it's unfortunate how many grids are running the dev version right now and basically experimenting on their residents. Unless they are upfront about being an experimental grid. One problem at the moment is for hypergriders between grids (losing scripted attachments, etc.) And it's a drag for people who spent a lot of time making NPCs do cool things who now find them broken.

[Dot Matrix]

So that others know (I hadn't realised):

The link to the specific conversation will only work if you are logged on to Google+.

Similarly if you try looking at OpenSim Virtual under "Virtual Products" (which is where the thread resides) it will not show unless you are logged on. Other threads DO show, e.g. Oz's new sim surrounds.