Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

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Serene Jewell
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Re: Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

Post by Serene Jewell » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:26 pm

I went to the opensimulator meeting at Wright Plaza today. As a result, I impulsively opened a new G+ group for OpenSim tech dev/user tech talk. https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities ... 0124527813 (Sorry to keep using G+, but it's the largest communications channel that allows anonymous identities which is important to so many folks in virtual worlds.)

There was some discussion of the problems being caused by 0.9. Nebadon Izumi basically said, it's a long time to the stable release, things can still change, etc. He seemed especially encouraging about fixing the OSSL NPC problems. After this meeting I'm more convinced than ever that no grid should be running dev code unless their users know they are on an experimental grid. But many grids are, and when people land on them, it appears that OpenSim itself is broken. Sigh. Maybe there should be a flashing warning sign when you are about to enter a world running a dev branch.

In any case, Nebadon asked for the community to organize itself and even come up with some representatives to bring these kind of issues to the devs. Frankly I don't think it's possible for there to be a single representative of all 30,000+ opensim users, but the idea of more communication back and forth is a good one.

It's also really disturbing that Nebadon says there are no enough developers. Whenever I ask for specifics about what type of developers would be useful, to do what specifically, I never get a straight answer. If someone knows that answer, please IM me or email serenejewell@gmail.com. Opensim is an important open source project and I think it could be strengthened.

Thanks again Ilan and Oren for running a stable grid. It's good to come home to.
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Re: Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

Post by Graham Mills » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:15 pm

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Re: Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

Post by Serene Jewell » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:54 pm

Somewhere between silence and panic there is room for discourse. There has not much dialogue between opensim devs and users. It's a tough problem. There are few devs and tens of thousands of users. It is not clear that the devs have a full picture of how large and varied the user base is. Plus the devs are in the middle of the big Avination code merge. I have complete respect for what they are up against. But there does need to be a way to say "Hey, I see you are making a change that might break my thing - my thing is important to a lot of people, will you consider doing that in a different way?" The Mantis bug reporting system is useful, but doesn't enable much dialogue. Diversity and dialogue make for the strongest communities.

I'm posting this in the G+ discussion too. Some people equate asking difficult questions with freaking out. No one is feaking out. Pushing for more dialogue about an important open source project is not a bad thing. It is part of the process.
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Re: Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

Post by Serene Jewell » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:44 am

Oh my stars. It looks like I posted in response to Graham's perfectly genius New Year's resolution. I didn't.

I was writing in response to the person who called me chicken little in an IM message. lol

OK, I will get back to blogging now.
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Re: Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

Post by Ghaelen DLareh » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:36 pm

I'm glad to find this thread. I have recently gotten back to building and ran smack dab into the mesh issue on another grid.

Simply put, my lovely, clean, mesh greenhouse which works beautifully in Kitely would not let me through the door in another grid. It acted the same way as in SL when the physics is not 'prim'. I looked and looked and tried one upload method after another - high physics, from file physics, analyze, don't analyze, do a cartwheel, clear cache, inventory, browser, check edges, faces in Blender, use Firestorm, don't use Firestorm, Singularity, no, not Singularity, stand on my head, assume my mesh is bad, try to find some help....

If I 'optimize' or decimate my simple structure in Blender any more than it is, I won't have a building at all.

My mesh is not bad. There are no wayward faces blocking the door. I followed the dev's instructions for upload to the letter (from the Mantis discussion). Still can't walk into the building. My structure DOES work in SL (I can walk through the door) IF I change the physics from the default 'convex hull' to 'prim'. This changes the prim count from 5 to 26. So I'm not very motivated to do (or like) that. The ubODE physics DEFAULTS to 'prim' but the door is blocked.

I don't know what is different. I don't know WHAT to look for to make it work now. I don't know what OTHER settings to choose when uploading. This is my frustration.

Good thing the other grid will let me go back to Bullet Physics.

I'm only posting here because I think I'm representative of many, many users who are massively confused as to what to do - even intermediate builders who know something about the technical side of things. And I'm actually surprised at why anyone thinks opensim needs to be like Second Life. My experience has been to very much enjoyed the fact that it is not - SL, with it's manufactured restrictions.

I was pleased as punch to find my greenhouse worked perfectly in Kitely (and Avacon and OSCC grid). I'm working to create a place for SL friends to come when they begin their exodus - not to another exact SL, but somewhere familiar enough yet with more creative freedom and much less expense.

So I second the 'thanks' Ilan. I'll keep my eye better on developments and maybe try to beta test as things change.
Last edited by Ghaelen DLareh on Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

Post by Ghaelen DLareh » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:00 pm

Dot Matrix wrote:That is reassuring to know for those of us on Kitely grid, Ilan. Thank you.

However, the main point is that OpenSim 0.9.0 breaks a great deal of current, popular tools and content, as Aine's last paragraph makes clear:
Aine wrote:... these exact same changes will break all existing MLP systems, all furniture/items that have sit targets or use position scripts, and all scripts that involve rezzing NPCs (eg. Ferd's excellent NPC controller system). It's not just the content I created that's being trashed...it's a very, very large percentage of commonly used objects.
This will apply to items available on Kitely Market sold to users on other grids that might have moved to OpenSim 0.9. What should those creators do?
I sent another avie (on a .9 dev region) a copy of my simple building (from Kitely), and it did not work there. I mean that avie could not walk through the door. The building is fine in Kitely.
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Re: Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

Post by Ozwell Wayfarer » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:16 pm

Serene Jewell wrote:No one is feaking out.
...I am freaking out a bit. Just quietly to myself. :( lol

I have not read all of the threads on this topic but I dont like the sound of all this physics business. Guess its time to add a disclaimer.
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Re: Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

Post by Brayla Sana » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:57 pm

These changes are a result of integrating the Avination code into Opensim. It's something we will need to keep an eye on. No panic, but it is a good thing to let people know what is going on early enough that we can keep an eye on 0.9 and express our concerns when needed.
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Re: Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

Post by beverly Zauberflote » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:52 pm

I was happy to find this thread but sad to see that making a physics model didn't solve the "can't walk through doors" problem....I have multiple structures on the BallerNation Grid and all of them have doors that can't be walked through and floors that are phantom. I believe they are running 0.9.0 (thanks Serene for checking).
I was hoping to test re-uploading with a physics model to see if that fixes the issue but am now losing hope that that will be the solution after seeing Ghaelen's post. In the interim I have "unchecked" the export option on all of my structures in the market because of this issue, which...makes me sad.....
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Re: Opensim 0.9 dev version is breaking things

Post by beverly Zauberflote » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:59 pm

Dot Matrix wrote:That is reassuring to know for those of us on Kitely grid, Ilan. Thank you.

However, the main point is that OpenSim 0.9.0 breaks a great deal of current, popular tools and content, as Aine's last paragraph makes clear:
Aine wrote:... these exact same changes will break all existing MLP systems, all furniture/items that have sit targets or use position scripts, and all scripts that involve rezzing NPCs (eg. Ferd's excellent NPC controller system). It's not just the content I created that's being trashed...it's a very, very large percentage of commonly used objects.
This will apply to items available on Kitely Market sold to users on other grids that might have moved to OpenSim 0.9. What should those creators do?
blegh....I am getting sick lol.....
time for a going out of business sale?
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