IAR file export

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Graham Mills
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Re: IAR file export

Post by Graham Mills » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:52 am

Ilan Tochner wrote:Storing objects inside other objects creates a coalesced object. OpenSim implements this kind of contained objects as XML blobs inside the containing object. Those blobs are stored very inefficiently and take time and CPU resources to create.

We'll investigate why the OAR files have the wrong date.
As I understand it, a coalesced object is one taken into inventory after multi-selecting objects rather than nesting them as the quote implies? See link for use in context. Apologies but I'm a bit confused as to which is inefficient in terms of storage. Both?

Afaik you can't get access to user inventory via lsl scripts.

WB Ami :)

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Re: IAR file export

Post by Graham Mills » Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:19 am

My reason for being especially interested in inventory is that for a newsletter item I attempted to paraphrase recommendations made at the Community Meetup just before the holidays:
Inventory hints from Ilan included (i) use inventory folders rather than storing items in inventory within prims/boxes or notecards, (ii) save single items rather than coalesced objects, (iii) inventory listings do not display more than the first 1,000 items so items must be deleted or moved to sub-folders in order to display further items (helpfully, a folder can contain 1,000 sub-folders), (iv) avoid excessive numbers of root folders in inventory (better to use sub-folders of root folders), (v) inworld storage is preferable to inventory.
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Ilan Tochner
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Re: IAR file export

Post by Ilan Tochner » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:37 pm

You're right graham. I responded quickly and incorrectly.

When you grab multiple items together they are stored as one big XML and that needs to be stored in the world's database and/or your inventory. That operation is slow.

When you place an item from your inventory into a box without rezzing it, all that the box actually stores is the item's identifier in our asset system and that operation doesn't consume a lot of resources until you actually try to export the world. At that point, exporting a world which contains a box with many items inside it can result in a VERY big OAR file which will consume a lot of server resources to create as each item and asset will actually need to be stored in the OAR file.
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Constance Peregrine
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Re: IAR file export

Post by Constance Peregrine » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:15 pm

This might be helpful in some regards. I have used it and I like it a lot.

http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_zdrop_ztake_mtake
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Re: IAR file export

Post by Amiryu Hosoi » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:07 pm

Whohooo,

this is exactly what we need;-)

Thank you Constance
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Re: IAR file export

Post by Ada Radius » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:04 pm

EEEP what?
I thought, from what you said on Sunday, that boxed items in inventory were bad, items stored in notecard, also bad. Is that still true? I just spent quite a bit of time yesterday getting them out of inventory into my stash sim. Much of what I'm stashing are textures and system avatar layers - skins, shapes, etc. - things that can't be rezzed out except on an avatar, so they have to be either in inventory, or boxed.

What is the best way to store these items? I have tens of thousands of them. I don't want to duplicate instances inworld with different uuid's, or I could just keep them on a hard drive and import them when needed. Most of them end up in the hands of a dozen or so actors in the troupe, at the Marketplace, or textures on a set somewhere.
Ada

Ilan Tochner wrote:You're right graham. I responded quickly and incorrectly.

When you grab multiple items together they are stored as one big XML and that needs to be stored in the world's database and/or your inventory. That operation is slow.

When you place an item from your inventory into a box without rezzing it, all that the box actually stores is the item's identifier in our asset system and that operation doesn't consume a lot of resources until you actually try to export the world. At that point, exporting a world which contains a box with many items inside it can result in a VERY big OAR file which will consume a lot of server resources to create as each item and asset will actually need to be stored in the OAR file.
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Re: IAR file export

Post by Ilan Tochner » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:29 pm

Hi Ada,

There are two different questions here. One is how to store your items to minimize world startup time and the other is how to store them to minimize impact on your avatar's inventory.

To minimize inventory load you want to minimize the number of items in your invetory. The less items you have in your inventory the better. That said, access to boxed items creates more load than accessing the items when they are in an inventory folder. Therefore, if you want to avoid using a world for storage then use inventory folders instead of boxing items and storing the boxes in your inventory. You'll have fast inventory access times if you avoid creating many folders in your inventory's root folder and make sure to split items into subfolders instead of creating folders that contain many items directly.

To minimize world startup time in Kitely you want to minimize the number of assets that need to be transfered to a sim before is can be started. The sim will only need the rezzed assets to actually start but, due to how our on-demand system works, all the assets will be transfered to the sever running that sim before it is started. That transfer is fast but if your world contains thousands of boxed assets then it will still take time.
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Re: IAR file export

Post by Ada Radius » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:23 pm

Aha OK thank you! That is what I understood at the meeting, and what I'm working on. I'll box the assets onto a stash sim. I can live with slow sim startup for the stash sim, as I get the benefits of a smaller more efficient inventory for other work. If I organize it right I can grab what I need for a particular project and take it to an empty sim to do the actual work.
(SL poisoned our minds, Kitely is detox lolol)
Ada
Ilan Tochner wrote:Hi Ada,

There are two different questions here. One is how to store your items to minimize world startup time and the other is how to store them to minimize impact on your avatar's inventory.

To minimize inventory load you want to minimize the number of items in your invetory. The less items you have in your inventory the better. That said, access to boxed items creates more load than accessing the items when they are in an inventory folder. Therefore, if you want to avoid using a world for storage then use inventory folders instead of boxing items and storing the boxes in your inventory. You'll have fast inventory access times if you avoid creating many folders in your inventory's root folder and make sure to split items into subfolders instead of creating folders that contain many items directly.

To minimize world startup time in Kitely you want to minimize the number of assets that need to be transfered to a sim before is can be started. The sim will only need the rezzed assets to actually start but, due to how our on-demand system works, all the assets will be transfered to the sever running that sim before it is started. That transfer is fast but if your world contains thousands of boxed assets then it will still take time.
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Re: IAR file export

Post by Marstol Nitely » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:16 am

Is there a limit to the size of an OAR that can be imported into KItely? My storage world is getting is getting larger and so is the file size of the OARs that I am backing it up to.
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Re: IAR file export

Post by Ilan Tochner » Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:15 am

Hi Marstol,

AFAIK we haven't set a limit but there is a technical one. You won't be able to import an OAR file that requires more memory for the import operation than the amount of memory we allocate for Advanced World load OAR operations. How that relates to OAR file size really depends on the objects and assets stored in that OAR file.
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