Solution for Ctrl-Z Bug?

[Snoots Dwagon]

Not only on Kitely but other grids, pressing Ctrl-Z while editing an avatar (to return a body part to last position) results in catastrophe. I've seen those parts fly off a hundred meters away; getting them back can be nigh impossible. In some cases it's destroyed an avatar, as several body part pieces could not be located and retrieved.

Does anyone know of a solution to this? Because try as I may, old habits die hard and I wind up pressing that Ctrl-Z then regretting it the moment I do.

[Ilan Tochner]

Hi Snoots,

If this happens in SL as well then this is very likely a viewer bug that you can file a report for in the Firestorm JIRA.

[Mook Wheeler]

hi Snoots and Ilan --

* I have encountered the same problem in Kitely.
* Also, I have encountered a variation: sometimes, trying to ROTATE a worn item has the same catastrophic effect.
* The glitch happens more often if the worn item is made up of several prims linked together.
* So, Ctrl+Z as well as Rotate can generate the same effect.
* Regarding SL -- I use Firestorm on SL, wear the same avatar and items, and have not encountered either of these problems.
* Cannot comment on other OpenSim grids as I mostly only build in Kitely.

[Ilan Tochner]

I've discussed this with Oren and both Undo and Rotate are managed by the viewer which then sends the updated coordinates, rotation, size, etc. to the server. In other words, it looks like a viewer bug so the remaining question is why it would behave differently in OpenSim than in SL.

[Mook Wheeler]

I must add that when I encountered these glitches, I was on Singularity. I have never used Firestorm OpenSim. Also, since replacing Singularity with SceneGate, I do not recall that I have had either of these glitches, but that could be just because I have avoided Rotating worn items from fear.

[Snoots Dwagon]

I confirm Mook's statement that he has not noticed this issue in SL. I have only experienced this issue in Opensim. To verify this observation I visited SL this evening using the Firestorm Viewer, created a multi-part attachment, wore it, edited it several meters away from me, and clicked Ctrl-Z. All parts of the object returned to their proper original location, without deviation. I repeated the same exact test on Kitely, and it failed. Again, this is not a problem specific to Kitely. I have seen it fail repeatedly on OSgrid as well... but not on SL.

So there may be more to this problem than meets the eye. I hate to throw another zinger your direction, but I've been building avatars lately and the number of times I've experienced this issue finally drove me to post.

A benefit in debugging is that this error appears consistent. In my observation, this Ctrl-Z object disruption happens every time, without exception. Sometimes the object flies off just a few meters and remains intact, allowing reasonably easy return. Other times the object breaks apart into individual prims and has flown off as far as (I believe) 128m. Sometimes I have lost track of parts entirely. So the consistency does at least allow one to test and see if the problem still exists.

[Selby Evans]

I have tested and cannot replicate the problem in Scenegate, so it does seem to be a viewer bug.

[Mook Wheeler]

There was another glitch which happened occasionally when I was still on Singularity viewer. I don't know if it is connected to the Ctrl+Z / Rotate glitch, but it has very similar effects.

Items rezzed on the sandbox floor can sometimes rezz way up in the sky unseen. You think it did not rezz, so you rezz another copy, and another. All of them are actually being rezzed up in the distant sky, unseen. Once this glitch 'begins', you can rezz the same thing numerous times on the sandbox floor, and each time, the item will end up in the distant sky. And while this glitch was happening, you can also copy-and-paste an item's Position Coordinates, and the same coordinates will position the item in completely the wrong place.

I mention these additional oddities because they often seem to happen when the (original) Ctrl+Z/Rotate glitch was happening, and because they have a similar result -- items end up in the distant sky somewhere.

Again, I have *not* encountered these oddities since I switched to SceneGate.

[Shandon Loring]

I pretty much only use Firestorm.. I've never encountered this bug in 13 years in SL, which is why it is built in at a root level in my building habits, and why it is such a hard habit to break.

I have encountered this in Kitely since the word go... i.e. 7 years.

It can be fairly catastrophic, and it's been a hard habit to break. Esp. since it still works fine in SL and I still do a lot of building there. AND especially since it is a very handy method.

I mostly build only in SL and Kitely these days, I don't recall if it was a problem in any of the several other OS grids I was on... though I seem to recall it WAS a problem in Inworldz also, but I can't swear to that, and it's hardly a testable scenario now. :-/

I could fire up my SoaS empire and test it out, if anybody thinks that would contribute to the discussion?

[Ilan Tochner]

Please do so Shandon and report your findings. If there is a Kitely-specifc issue then we want to know about it, preferably with a simple scenario that reproduces it so that we'll be able to debug it.