Bitcoins?

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Serenity Sinclaire
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Re: Bitcoins?

Post by Serenity Sinclaire »

@Ilan --


There are exchanges that will handle that part. Secure ones. Coinbase, BTC-e, Bitstamp, Bitfinex...


This was announced on the bitcoin forum...thought I'd pass it along. Maybe if you guys attend you could find out more about any options coming available.

Hi all,

On July 28-29 we will be holding a Bitcoin conference in Tel Aviv, a joint work of the Israeli Bitcoin Association and Media Bistro's "Inside Bitcoins" brand. More details about the event are available at http://bitcointlv.com/.

We expect hundreds of people from around the world to participate, and we have ~30 confirmed speakers consisting of both Bitcoin's worldwide experts (including, for example, slush, Stefan Thomas and Vitalik Buterin) and Israel's local talent.

We're designing the conference to have something for everyone, with topics covering both Bitcoin's industry (businesses, start-ups, commerce, communities, regulation and authorities) and technology (core protocol, software, features, algorithms and academic research).

The tentative agenda is available on the site, but it is still actively developed with new sessions added and existing sessions being finalized.

The early bird registration price is $259 for the whole conference, though there are some discounted ticket options.

The deadline for enjoying the best rates will end soon, so make sure not to miss this opportunity to network, learn about developments in the Bitcoin world, and visit the Bitcoin empire that is Israel.

I hope to see you all there!
Last edited by Serenity Sinclaire on Wed May 28, 2014 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Serenity Sinclaire
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Re: Bitcoins?

Post by Serenity Sinclaire »

Deuce Halsey wrote:
Serenity Sinclaire wrote: Why you'll inevitably be using bitcoin within the next year, same way you use internet
Hackers and thieves are already using Bitcoin the same way they use the internet. For reference I give you the collapse of MtGox in February 2014, which led to the "disappearance" of more than 700k Bitcoins, which were valued somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 million US Dollars. That's not the only Bitcoin exchange that has collapsed in the past few months, by the way, just the largest and most popular one.

It appears that the Bitcoin system software is riddled with holes big enough to drive a virtual armored truck through. Hackers have been doing just that on a regular basis. I find it hard to believe that people are still promoting what is a very flawed implementation of a good idea.
Serenity Sinclaire wrote: Please give it some thought!
I have done so, and I would not do business with any grid that actually supported Bitcoins.

I do agree that a worldwide virtual currency is a really cool idea that could solve a lot of international problems. The primary difficulty will be to be make such a virtual currency secure from hackers. Bitcoin has been proving recently that it doesn't fit the bill from a security point of view.

That's the failure of Gox, not bitcoin. And you are vastly incorrect about the system software. Its protocol is bulletproof and has never been hacked because it's unhackable. Exchanges and bitcoin are two entirely different things.

Hackers and thieves use USD and other national currencies...ready to ban those? Ready to stop doing business with anyone using usd backed by debt? Hackers and thieves are also not bitcoin. Bitcoin is merely a tool. If you're a psychopath then you'll find a way to use it unlawfully. Most people, however, value a decentralized secure solution.

Hackers cannot hack exchanges, the security is too rigorous. Gox was not a hacking job. Gox was mismanaged by its own CEO and inside team who stole people's money, couldn't cover the "run" and blamed it on hacking as an excuse. Gox was not hacked whatsoever.

Hackers cannot hack secure wallets. The offline wallet software/client can be hacked - in about 10 million years...so hackers resort to phishing and keylogging to get copy text of passwords BECAUSE THEY CAN'T OTHERWISE HACK A WALLET - its encryption is 7 layers deep. Get real.

Bitcoin is not susceptible to hacking. User error is why people lose their bitcoin. They don't secure their computers, their passwords, their financial informatiom. Bitcoin is for grown ups, not children who require other people to take care of their finances.

Bitcoin blockchain has never been hacked and I challenge you to find a single instance where it was.

And bottom line, while it's clear you don't really understand the protocol that makes bitcoin what it is and as secure as it is, and you're free to disregard it all you like, bitcoin (as the internet of currency) isn't going anywhere and will guaranteed force paypal and western union out of business because it is the more efficient, secure option for transmitting payments virtually across the web.

Western Union will likely fall first, though...paypal will not be around, or will be gasping its final breath within 5 years as bitcoin payments become the way we do money.
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Re: Bitcoins?

Post by Serenity Sinclaire »

RE volatility - this is more hype and parroting than reality. The market price fluctuates but the market value is steadily (if not exponentially) rising. Merchants who get set up properly will have that problem handled through the conversion calculator at point of sale. They would convert it anyway until it's more widely adopted or they would only deal in bitcoin because it's still a store of value unto itself. People are too conditioned to assume bitcoin has to be paid back in national currencies as if the national currencies are "real" money and bitcoin is a token or fake money.

It is not those things. It IS money. It has more value than any national currency, especially the USD.

The store of value, or building wealth can be had by buying bitcoin and holding onto it as the market value increases and the price rises.

There have long since been applications and procedures in place to handle the market price fluctuation for merchants so they continue to exchange bitcoin to other currency...else no merchants would be accepting them even now. In short, the fluctuation isn't an issue for merchants which is why more and more of them are adopting bitcoin and accepting it. :)
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Re: Bitcoins?

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"Bitcoin is for grown ups" oppsss, ach!! and an oy vey!! thrown in...that leaves ME out then!! [and most of the net users in mindy if not also in body]............................

[this has been a psa for those who might be stupid old ladies who long for immaturity!!]
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Re: Bitcoins?

Post by Deuce Halsey »

Serenity Sinclaire wrote: That's the failure of Gox, not bitcoin. And you are vastly incorrect about the system software. Its protocol is bulletproof and has never been hacked because it's unhackable. Exchanges and bitcoin are two entirely different things.
Fair enough, I'll admit to being uninformed about Bitcoin. So it's possible for me to own Bitcoins without being involved with one of these exchanges? Because it sure is possible for me to own US Dollars without being involved with any currency exchange operation.
Serenity Sinclaire wrote: Hackers cannot hack exchanges, the security is too rigorous. Gox was not a hacking job. Gox was mismanaged by its own CEO and inside team who stole people's money, couldn't cover the "run" and blamed it on hacking as an excuse. Gox was not hacked whatsoever.
So Bitcoins can't be hacked, but they can be stolen? Please explain the difference to me. Unless I can own Bitcoins independently of any Bitcoin exchange, I'm always susceptible to the thieves who may be running the exchange I'm using. Once my virtual cash has vanished, does it really matter if a hacker or a management crook stole it? Not to me. I'm still out the value of my missing virtual cash.

I have no idea what the future holds for Paypal or Western Union. But at least those organizations make their transactions in various existing national currencies that have real value in world economic marketplaces.

As far as the future usage of Bitcoins, I believe you are deluding yourself. Virtual currency doesn't fit the mold of either type of commonly used and accepted currency as we know it today. It certainly isn't a commodity currency like gold or silver, that has innate value independent of its use as money. Nor is it a fiat currency, since it isn't backed by the "faith and credit" of any national government. I'm sorry, but the whole thing strikes me as a bunch of nerds standing around covering their ears and and repeating their mantra, "Bitcoins are really money because I say they are!" All I can say is good luck with that.... you're gonna need it.
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Re: Bitcoins?

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Minethere Always wrote:"Bitcoin is for grown ups" oppsss, ach!! and an oy vey!! thrown in...that leaves ME out then!! [and most of the net users in mindy if not also in body]............................
LOL! I've been emotionally 13 years old since approximately 1972, which was only a couple of years after I achieved the chronological age of 13. ;)
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Re: Bitcoins?

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This is neither a yay or nay. I don't know much about Bitcoin, but thought the following article from last week's Review Journal might be of interest. http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/c ... launches-d
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Re: Bitcoins?

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Deuce Halsey wrote:
Fair enough, I'll admit to being uninformed about Bitcoin. So it's possible for me to own Bitcoins without being involved with one of these exchanges? Because it sure is possible for me to own US Dollars without being involved with any currency exchange operation.
Absolutely - you download the Bitcoin-QT wallet https://bitcoin.org/en/download where you store your Bitcoins on your own local computer with the control and backups you implement.

If you mine your own coins, you'd usually send them to your own wallet and not to the exchanges (although some do), and only transfer to exchanges when you want to convert to another currency. If you want to pay someone else in Bitcoin, you do that from your wallet, and not via an exchange. The same system applies for the most traded crypto currencies.
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Re: Bitcoins?

Post by Ozwell Wayfarer »

Serenity Sinclaire wrote:RE volatility - this is more hype and parroting than reality. The market price fluctuates but the market value is steadily (if not exponentially) rising. Merchants who get set up properly will have that problem handled through the conversion calculator at point of sale. They would convert it anyway until it's more widely adopted or they would only deal in bitcoin because it's still a store of value unto itself. People are too conditioned to assume bitcoin has to be paid back in national currencies as if the national currencies are "real" money and bitcoin is a token or fake money.

It is not those things. It IS money. It has more value than any national currency, especially the USD.

The store of value, or building wealth can be had by buying bitcoin and holding onto it as the market value increases and the price rises.

There have long since been applications and procedures in place to handle the market price fluctuation for merchants so they continue to exchange bitcoin to other currency...else no merchants would be accepting them even now. In short, the fluctuation isn't an issue for merchants which is why more and more of them are adopting bitcoin and accepting it. :)
I understand peoples enthusiasm for Bitcoins I really do. I snapped up a load of them a few years ago and made a pretty penny from it all, but as a merchant I cant see myself accepting them for payments anytime soon. It is true that if you put Bitcoin up against any other national currency its volatility speaks for itself. This is because people are not using it as a currency right now but as a short to medium term investment. People treat it like a commodity rather than a currency.

Bitcoin (just like "normal" money) is only whatever the majority perceive it to be. If we google "bitcoin volatility", here are the top hits.....

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum ... 505664.php - Is Bitcoin a viable currency? - Its probably too volatile.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timothylee/ ... fatal-one/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoins-volatility-no-other/

I think the first article hits the nail on the head - "Basically, bitcoin lacks a mechanism for setting the supply equal to the demand. That is needed in order for bitcoin to maintain its value.

History is replete with examples of what happens to currencies with fixed supplies. When governments tie their hands in the supply of their currencies, much like bitcoin has done, the value fluctuates."

For me, that is the real issue at play here.

So there is a general consensus that, at least right now, Bitcoins volatility is a problem holding it back from mass adoption. I do follow the issue quite closely and I have not heard of any reliable tools for merchants managing volatility. If you do know of them, I would be interested in links to further info.
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Re: Bitcoins?

Post by Gavin Hird »

Ozwell Wayfarer wrote:
So there is a general consensus that, at least right now, Bitcoins volatility is a problem holding it back from mass adoption. I do follow the issue quite closely and I have not heard of any reliable tools for merchants managing volatility. If you do know of them, I would be interested in links to further info.
Although the volatility is probably the main cause for holding back people at the moment, there is an inherent problem with the way Bitcoin is generated; the difficulty factor, where the demand will outstrip the ability to generate Bitcoin. Chart of the increase in difficulty. https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty . If this trend continues the payback on hardware to generate the Bitcoin will be in the negative later this year, so for this reason alone it can fizzle out. https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

Other crypto coins that does not have the same (flaw) built into it will probably fare much better, and will in my opinion become more successful in the long run.
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