Fulfillment University world DOA earlier today

[Serendipity Seraph]

I tried to enter twice and had mainly empty field with nothing rezzing and frozen avatar movement. My guests at my weekly meeting had similar problems. I had to move to the meeting to a single region world. Not at all good and not what I want to see dreaming of large scale multiple events on such a region (Universal Campus build). What the hell?

[Serendipity Seraph]

It is up now but 3.4 fps in some parts of the sim and Physics FPS fluctuating between 55 (normal value I have seen) and 43 or so. A large beautiful build out isn't worth much if I can't dependably host a small meeting on it (9 people earlier trying to attend). I don't know if something peculiar was up today or not. Just reporting.

[Ilan Tochner]

Hi Serendipity,

If the world contains a lot of data people's viewers may lag while they are downloading it.

Have you visited this world at other times?

Was this just during login or longer? How long did the problem remain?

[Deuce Halsey]

My experience has been that if a lot of people arrive simultaneously for an event you will get quite a bit of lag until all the new visitors have downloaded the world content. I'm not sure if anything can be done about this effect. All I can say is that sim performance on new avatar arrival is lot better than it used to be in Kitely.

Back when I started in Kitely a few months ago I would lag if I was working by myself in my world and any new avatar arrived. I would lag until the new visitor had finished downloading the world content. Now I can be working away in my world and not even notice that another avatar has arrived until I see their dot on the minimap, they move across my field of view, or they come over to me and say "hi".

Until someone can fix the multiple arrivals causing lag problem (assuming that is even a "solvable" problem) we should learn to appreciate the folks who arrive "fashionably late" for events. They help cut down on initial lag.

[Graham Mills]

This was a common occurrence among hypergrid travellers that can be mitigated to a degree by phasing arrivals and a number of blamgate types were designed with that in mind. The Universal Campus is a lovely build but it does tend to lag in my experience when I've hypergridded classes into it on OSgrid.

Can I suggest we form a group called Crash Test Dummies or similar for the express purpose of testing builds? I know you can't replicate the exact conditions of a particular class (I believe slow connections among a few users can have a disproportionately negative effect) but it might give teachers greater confidence in their worlds.

[Graham Mills]

OK, that group now exists. Please join if you are interested. It's presently G-rated.

Can I suggest we form a group called Crash Test Dummies or similar for the express purpose of testing builds? I know you can't replicate the exact conditions of a particular class (I believe slow connections among a few users can have a disproportionately negative effect) but it might give teachers greater confidence in their worlds.

[Serendipity Seraph]

Hi Serendipity,

If the world contains a lot of data people's viewers may lag while they are downloading it.

Have you visited this world at other times?

Was this just during login or longer? How long did the problem remain?

We met there the previous week without issue. I have spent a fair amount of time in this world in the past without the 6-8 group members as well. It was only on the date mentioned that I had this serious an issue. It has 48,000 prims but that is well under the kitely 100,000. It is basically a Universal Campus with minor modifications.

[Serendipity Seraph]

This was a common occurrence among hypergrid travellers that can be mitigated to a degree by phasing arrivals and a number of blamgate types were designed with that in mind. The Universal Campus is a lovely build but it does tend to lag in my experience when I've hypergridded classes into it on OSgrid.

Can I suggest we form a group called Crash Test Dummies or similar for the express purpose of testing builds? I know you can't replicate the exact conditions of a particular class (I believe slow connections among a few users can have a disproportionately negative effect) but it might give teachers greater confidence in their worlds.

What does hypergrid have to do with it? This is only Kitely so no hypergrid involved. A world of 48,000 prims should be fine. Why wouldn't it be. And as mentioned this was much worse than normal lag. World not rezzing at all when I attempted to log into it twice. I saw the raw ground textures and not much else. I also could not move.

I don't think this is the level of performance that we are led to expect on Kitely. I certainly can't depend on any world loaded as much for meetings if this is periodically expected. Since that is a large part of "my thing" and since after all it is a campus world that should be able to accommodate a reasonable numbers of visitors I am not a happy camper.

[Serendipity Seraph]

One thing that bugs be about the Universal Campus build is that if I am in the main building with my avatar facing in toward the main part of the build then my experienced fps is around 3-7 fps forever regardless of how long I stay in world and in the same position and view orientation. This suggest to me that most of the 2x2 megaregion contents are continuously sending traffic from server to client or that the client is continuously busy processing over and over what is largely unchanged data. Can anyone shed some light on what is going on based on opensim/viewer internals? If I turn my back on the main part of the sim then fps goes to 15-20 or better almost immediately and stays there.

[Graham Mills]

Fair comment re hypergrid but it was enough to put me off and, of course, you may wish to extend your meetings to hypergrid visitors from February or thereabouts. Admittedly the Kitely Universal Campus is a cut-down version without the 63-prim microscopes in the lab. Even so I can't help thinking that 48,000 prims is excessive even if Kitely advertizes that 100K upper limit and the total is split between four regions. That said, Diva Canto uses it regularly for meetings according to her blog (albeit I would guess from dedicated servers) so there's nothing inherently evil about the build as evidenced, indeed, by your successful use on earlier occasions.

As Deuce says, performance on Kitely has improved markedly of late (I first used it with a class in 2011) but that's not to say that there isn't the occasional weirdness arising from the platform or the cloud. I'm sure you know far more about the internals of OpenSim than I do so I won't comment further. Have I ever encountered poor rezzing of worlds such as you describe? Yes, but it is very infrequent (I would guess <0.1% of logins). That argues, of course, against the Crash Test Dummy concept (that group is just myself and Deuce at the moment anyway) and suggests that we need to log such events so Kitely can analyse them against their own data. Again, I can't comment on the vagaries of the Amazon cloud or Kitely's use thereof. The only thing I can recall from my most recent experience is that it wasn't limited to one region -- but there again, it is possible that I was experiencing a completely different local issue whereas in your case a number of avatars were affected.

Your observation regarding the fps when the avatar is facing in different directions is interesting. Assuming it is not client- or settings-specific, it sounds like one worth forwarding to the OpenSim Mantis.

Apologies if that response lacks focus again. It's Christmas and I'm attempting to chill-out after a busy semester. Happy holidays!

This was a common occurrence among hypergrid travellers that can be mitigated to a degree by phasing arrivals and a number of blamgate types were designed with that in mind. The Universal Campus is a lovely build but it does tend to lag in my experience when I've hypergridded classes into it on OSgrid.

Can I suggest we form a group called Crash Test Dummies or similar for the express purpose of testing builds? I know you can't replicate the exact conditions of a particular class (I believe slow connections among a few users can have a disproportionately negative effect) but it might give teachers greater confidence in their worlds.

What does hypergrid have to do with it? This is only Kitely so no hypergrid involved. A world of 48,000 prims should be fine. Why wouldn't it be. And as mentioned this was much worse than normal lag. World not rezzing at all when I attempted to log into it twice. I saw the raw ground textures and not much else. I also could not move.

I don't think this is the level of performance that we are led to expect on Kitely. I certainly can't depend on any world loaded as much for meetings if this is periodically expected. Since that is a large part of "my thing" and since after all it is a campus world that should be able to accommodate a reasonable numbers of visitors I am not a happy camper.