Weired behavior at setting parzel of region to mature

[Min Tigerpaw]

Frankly, when I decided to join Kitely I haven't been aware that it is so much doiminated by a conservative puritan mindset. The attractive thing about virtual worlds for me allways involves liberty as long as it is not offensive to the majority of other players. In Kitely it seems to be reverse: moderate is someone who applies in attitude to conservative puritan thinking. This forces me to change: I can't leave my regions moderate as I refuse to be unable to take a bath, use my sauna or hang an erotic pic according to my taste to the walls in my home in my worlds. The only exception I will make is the showcase region MT Shopping Adventure as this is supposed to give people the opportunity of seeing and testing my builds or design (at least the ones that apply to the moderate category). So anyone who might be inclined to visit my other worlds, come to events or discussions at my places or just meet me there, will need a more liberal midset and better get an adult account. If that ends up in not getting any traffic to my regions anymore I'll have to reconsider if Kitely is the right place for me to be.

[Samantha Atkins]

If people want to do adult things they should simply do them in private worlds or Adult rated worlds.

well, or, at home, in reality-))))) [goes looking for that, right now!!!]

But wait. Almost all of us are adults. So you are effectively saying that we should partition by worlds different parts of what we as normal adults do in order to meet some model of safety from what? Seeing an uncovered breast or people making love behind closed doors?

Is say skinny dipping or being a naturalist (being nude) also restricted to only "Adult" worlds?

Many of us are in virtual worlds at all for more freedom than in the physical world, not more restrictions on our doing and being than are applied in the physical world. I really don't see anything wrong with saying that "Mature" means that sexual activity is only not publicly viewable but may occur behind closed doors. This is certainly more consistent with expectations carried over from everyday existence. Otherwise what is and is not ok on a "Mature" world seems rather draconian and quite arbitrary. It is of course Kitely's right to define it however it wishes. But I hope, for the sake of a vibrant Kitely community and future, that it does not make its decision be overly confining or enforce it in too draconian a manner.

[Ilan Tochner]

Hi Min,

First, thank you for respecting our terms of service.

I think you're looking at the rating system in comparison to how it is defined in SL instead of how it works here. In Kitely the definition is that General worlds should be family safe and appropriate for supervised children under 13. Moderate worlds should be appropriate for teens 13 to 18 years old and Adult worlds can contain content that isn't legal to show to children under the age of 18. I'm assuming you don't want a 13 year old boy walking into your Moderate rated world while you're showering naked inside it. The way to do so is to label the world Adult or make it private to a group of people who don't include such teens. There isn't any attempt to force moral guidelines on you here it simply your way to make sure that what you do in your own worlds doesn't become offensive to other people. Unlike in SL an Adult world simply means adult content MAY be included so visitor beware. Almost all adult websites have a gateway page requiring the visitor to the site to agree to see adult content - in Kitely this goes further and states "this is my world I'll do whatever I please with it so if that isn't appropriate for you then don't enter it". Adult IS the liberal setting.

[Samantha Atkins]

Hi Dundridge,

Even if just a group of people can use a sex bed for having sex in a public world then other people may walk in on them. Our requirement is for that not to happen. If the bed is benign and can only be made Adult by a certain group of people then it's the world manager's responsibility to make sure that those people never use that bed while the world is public with a maturity rating which isn't Adult. If that is done and all other content in that world can be classified as Moderate then there is no problem for that world to be rated Moderate while the Adult content is not present in that world (e.g. the bed isn't in use).

However, doing this is very risky for the world manager unless he or she is absolutely certain the sex bed won't be used while the world is public and the world's maturity rating isn't set to Adult. This is a part of our TOS that we need to enforce very strictly. As that's the case the simple thing to do is to simply use the maturity ratings to properly indicate the maturity of the content and behavior that can be expected in that world. If someone wants to have a single General/Moderate rated world and sometimes use it for sex then that world manager shouldn't have Adult content accessible while it is General/Moderate and should switch it to Adult maturity rating when they use it for adult activity. It literally takes seconds to do. People who aren't willing to accept these very simple rules aren't agreeing to our TOS and. as sad as I am to say so, shouldn't be using our service. If people want to do adult things they should simply do them in private worlds or Adult rated worlds.

No one can walk into an enclosed space with no doors that allow them to just walk in. They can do various things we all know about to enter anyway on purpose but then it is hardly accidental. Anything that has animations (like a sex bed) can have Adult animations whether they are actually used or not. Just as in the real world one may act in a sexual fashion or other Adult manner not considered ok for public spaces or not at any time.

Why do you need to enforce this strictly? I see no real net benefit to doing so and lots of possible downsides for the Kitely community. Nor can you enforce it strictly. I can load any object I like with any anims I like and they don't come with an maturity rating, especially if I made them myself or otherwise acquired them outside Kitely marketplace and imported them. I think you would agree that restricting the ability to do such imports and to build things oneself would be far too draconian for the purported benefit.

The discussion was not about General rating but Moderate, which I and I think others thought was roughly the same as "Mature" rating elsewhere.

[Samantha Atkins]

Hi Min,

First, thank you for respecting our terms of service.

I think you're looking at the rating system in comparison to how it is defined in SL instead of how it works here. In Kitely the definition is that General worlds should be family safe and appropriate for supervised children under 13. Moderate worlds should be appropriate for teens 13 to 18 years old and Adult worlds can contain content that isn't legal to show to children under the age of 18. I'm assuming you don't want a 13 year old boy walking into your Moderate rated world while you're showering naked inside it. The way to do so is to label the world Adult or make it private to a group of people who don't include such teens. There isn't any attempt to force moral guidelines on you here it simply your way to make sure that what you do in your own worlds doesn't become offensive to other people. Unlike in SL an Adult world simply means adult content MAY be included so visitor beware. Almost all adult websites have a gateway page requiring the visitor to the site to agree to see adult content - in Kitely this goes further and states "this is my world I'll do whatever I please with it so if that isn't appropriate for you then don't enter it". Adult IS the liberal setting.

There is nothing illegal about a kid under 18 seeing nudity and so on that I am aware of. If you model showers in your world then it has to be an Adult world because no one takes a shower with their clothes on? Come on! This is absurd.

[Samantha Atkins]

Frankly, when I decided to join Kitely I haven't been aware that it is so much doiminated by a conservative puritan mindset. The attractive thing about virtual worlds for me allways involves liberty as long as it is not offensive to the majority of other players. In Kitely it seems to be reverse: moderate is someone who applies in attitude to conservative puritan thinking. This forces me to change: I can't leave my regions moderate as I refuse to be unable to take a bath, use my sauna or hang an erotic pic according to my taste to the walls in my home in my worlds. The only exception I will make is the showcase region MT Shopping Adventure as this is supposed to give people the opportunity of seeing and testing my builds or design (at least the ones that apply to the moderate category). So anyone who might be inclined to visit my other worlds, come to events or discussions at my places or just meet me there, will need a more liberal midset and better get an adult account. If that ends up in not getting any traffic to my regions anymore I'll have to reconsider if Kitely is the right place for me to be.

It will hurt some of my activities. There are people that attend meetings and other events that never set their avatar to Adult. They end up not being able to enter the world. Most people think Adult means much more libertine than merely a sex bed being present behind closed doors. They associate "Adult" with things like porn and red light districts unfortunately. So many don't click that setting.

[Samantha Atkins]

Perhaps a reasonable compromise is to insert one other level. Add a Mature level between Moderate and Adult. Thoughts?

[Ilan Tochner]

Hi Samantha,

Kitely doesn't have a maturity rating named "Mature" it has one called "Moderate". The difference is more than semantic. Please see my reply to Min above.

Most people in Kitely are adults (not all of them mind you) but not all of them access Kitely from a real world environment that tolerates Adult content. For example, quite a few active Kitely users are educators who access Kitely from universities and schools. Those people should be able to continue using Kitely while at work. The way to do that is for there to be a setting that means this content is suitable for work. That setting is the maturity rating system. By setting their account's maturity rating to General or Moderate they should be able to make sure that nothing they encounter in Kitely will cause them problems with their place of work. Once they get home and access Kitely from their own computers they can very easily switch their account's maturity rating in their Settings page. It literally takes seconds to do. They will then be able to join in any activity they want without having to comply with various work-related restrictions on what they can see or do.

BTW, there are countries where it is illegal for websites to show adult content without making sure that children aren't exposed to it.

[Samantha Atkins]

Hi Samantha,

BTW, there are countries where it is illegal for websites to show adult content without making sure that children aren't exposed to it.

So what? There are countries where I would have to be covered nearly head to foot to be seen in public.

[Serendipity Seraph]

The trouble in a nutshell is that what is defined as "Moderate" by Kitely seems to many of us and perhaps to majority of Kitely customers to be not "Moderate" but closer to "Puritantical". To many "Moderate" means you would expect to see anything "in the open" on a world that you couldn't see on the street in most any developed country (excepting a few neo-theocratic states). But that isn't at all what Moderate means here. I means something like that if you can see any body part you wouldn't see in street wear or see any sexual animation whatsoever (even french kissing was considered too much by some in one meeting), even behind clothes doors or within enclosed spaces. IMHO that is much too much restriction.