Complexity and physics

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Dot Mac
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Complexity and physics

Post by Dot Mac » Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:57 pm

I've recently tried adding layers to the Devokan 2x2 world by working in SoaS to move existing builds to fixed heights, saving the results as oars, and then merging the oars to create a final megaregion oar with 20k prims and just under 1500 scripts. The intention is to fully develop/adapt the skybuilds into places to visit over the coming months.

The world is loading in under 2 minutes (1:15 to viewer startup, then about 30-45 seconds till the world becomes visible).

However, at first, my avie cannot move except by double-clicking on the world map, and avie attachments aren't there (bald avie, with no shoes). After a while (about 5:30 minutes when I measured it), the attachments pop into existence and the avie can move normally, albeit laggily at first.

Watching the Statistics box (control+shift+1), Time dilation, Sim fps and Physics fps are at 0 during this period. When attachments appear and avie can move, non-zero values appear. After this, when others come into the world, they seem to have no problem in moving or with missing attachments.

Do I need to go back to a simpler build?

---------------
Edit (31 Dec 2012): Amended thread title to reflect that it is a problem of the build, not the system.
Last edited by Dot Mac on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dot Mac
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?

Post by Dot Mac » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:51 pm

I've tried again, in Firestorm. This time the world load time was much the same, but the delay before the physics started up was of the order of seconds. Perhaps it was a blip in the internet.
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Ilan Tochner
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?

Post by Ilan Tochner » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:45 pm

Hi Dot,

What elevations are you using for the skybuilds?
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?

Post by Dot Mac » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:49 pm

One is centred at 1000m (this is the Rivages du ciel neuron area, which I haven't moved from Shenn's original placement, but could if need be).

The others are at 1370m, 2020m and 3000m.
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Ilan Tochner
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?

Post by Ilan Tochner » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:18 pm

Hi Dot,

The problem isn't with skybuilds per say. For example. see the following 100,000 prim world that has builds in multiple level going up to 4000m:

http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world/Law ... ity-Test-2

We'll need to investigate why your particular world is freezing up. Have you experienced this problem when accessing your world from different computers and/or viewers?

(as an aside, I'd recommend refraining from building above 3500m as viewers can have problems displaying objects that are above 4096m and you want to leave enough space for people to be able to fly up)
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?

Post by Dot Mac » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:21 pm

Thanks for the replies, Ilan.

Originally I experienced the freeze with both Firestorm and Imprudence; this was on the Mac. I'll try again on a PC and report back.

============================
Edit: The freeze lasted for about 3:45 minutes in Imprudence on the PC -- same symptoms as on the Mac.

I'll try again in Firestorm on the PC.
============================
Edit 2: No freeze this time, but I hadn't allowed the world to close down since trying in Imp. I'll try to leave it a bit longer.
============================
Edit 3: In Firestorm on the PC with the world starting up from scratch, the freeze lasted for about 4 minutes; same symptoms.
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?

Post by Dot Mac » Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:56 pm

Trying the same test in a previous version of the world but without the builds at 1370m, 2020m or the NE corner of 3000m has no freeze in Firestorm on the PC. So the problem lies in one or more of those additions.

Testing this out by teleporting to Evergreen, I experienced a similar freeze on arrival, albeit just for a few seconds. The build in common is Tao, the sky castle, albeit this one is at ground level.

And running a similar test in Future Past, which has sky builds equivalent to those at 1370m and 2020m, results in no freeze.

So it looks like Tao might tip the balance.
==============
Edit: I've loaded the standalone oar for Tao into a single test region, and that is not exhibiting the freeze on entering the world, tested on Mac and PC in Firestorm.
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Re: Complexity and physics

Post by Oren Hurvitz » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:45 pm

Hi Dot,

The freeze happens while ODE is busy creating physics meshes for the objects in the world. The situation in this world is a worst-case scenario: there are many objects that use meshes (this includes both true mesh objects and sculpties), and their shapes are complicated so it takes ODE a long time to create the physics mesh.

This problem was reported in the past on Devokan. It was on a different version of the world then, called "Devokan mega". The solution was to simplify the physics meshes.

Here's a partial list of the slow objects (only objects that took more than 0.5 seconds to create their physics mesh are shown). Perhaps by looking at a few of these you'll find a way to make their physics mesh simpler:

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Dot Mac
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Re: Complexity and physics

Post by Dot Mac » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:11 pm

As I mentioned before, I am not able to simplify the physics meshes because the builds were done by others, often quite a while ago. I'm a curator of their work rather than a builder.

This 2x2 layered world was a second experiment, combining the oars vertically rather than horizontally, but clearly it is not going to work.

Dot's knuckles are duly rapped. It's time to retire these old oars.

Thank you for your patience, help and feedback.
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