the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

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Trouble Ahead
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Re: the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

Post by Trouble Ahead »

The value of being respectful in communication is, that both parties will keep the positive vibes to solve the problem, and that is all what matters when people are having a different visions on issues. There is enough negativity in this world already.

Cheers.
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Re: the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

Post by Mike Lorrey »

Trouble Ahead wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:47 pm
The value of being respectful in communication is, that both parties will keep the positive vibes to solve the problem, and that is all what matters when people are having a different visions on issues. There is enough negativity in this world already.

Cheers.
Agreed. I am sorry but I've lost my patience. I've gone around on this bug with Ilan for the third time in as many months, and he continues to insist its all in my head or in my viewer. Well I did exactly what he said to do and its still buggy, so its not the viewer. Ever time in the past I've proven to him that his system was buggy, I've never gotten an apology for all the gas lighting he did to blame it all on me and my building.
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Christine Nyn
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Re: the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

Post by Christine Nyn »

Forgive me if I ask a question here that I don't know enough to adequately answer for myself?

Mike states that the correct texture was already on the mesh before it was uploaded and hence should be showing in the right place now.
He also points out that the error has been around for some time now, so it appears region restarts and clearing cache on viewers are not having much effect on this.
There's also the rather odd thing he observed where clicking on the offending object caused an update which apparently then made the correct texture(s) appear, though it wasn't clear whether this was just a temporary thing.

So, my question is this: could there have been an error at the point where the mesh was uploaded that is now "baked in" to that asset?

A secondary question concerns the viewer, where normally "clear cache" refers to clearing the texture cache but there is also an object cache. Is it possible that a corrupted object in the object cache could cause this type of obstinately persisting problem?
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Ilan Tochner
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Re: the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

Post by Ilan Tochner »

Mike, the viewer could immediately render the object properly when you touched it only because it already received all the relevant data it required to do so from our system. It had gotten the data about what texture UUIDs should be used in each part of the object and it had gotten the correct textures associated with these UUIDs. All the data the viewer needed was already in its cache when you touched the object which is what enabled it to immediately apply the texture without needing to get any additional data from our system. In other words, there was nothing missing or wrong with the information our system sent the viewer before you touched the object, what was wrong was that the viewer didn't use it properly until you touched the object. That, by definition, is a viewer bug Mike.
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Ilan Tochner
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Re: the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

Post by Ilan Tochner »

Hi Christine,

If the server didn't hold the proper texture mapping then Mike's viewer wouldn't be able to display the correct mapping once the object was touched. The viewer needed to have the proper mapping information and the correct textures delivered to it using the same UUIDs that the mesh was stored with on our system for it to properly rezz after it was touched. There is a good question why it didn't do so before the object was touched but that is something that needs to be addressed by the viewer developers (Firestorm in this case though this could be a bug that was inherited from the Second Life viewer that Firestorm is based on).
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Re: the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

Post by Mike Lorrey »

Ilan Tochner wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:36 pm
Mike, the viewer could immediately render the object properly when you touched it only because it already received all the relevant data it required to do so from our system. It had gotten the data about what texture UUIDs should be used in each part of the object and it had gotten the correct textures associated with these UUIDs. All the data the viewer needed was already in its cache when you touched the object which is what enabled it to immediately apply the texture without needing to get any additional data from our system. In other words, there was nothing missing or wrong with the information our system sent the viewer before you touched the object, what was wrong was that the viewer didn't use it properly until you touched the object. That, by definition, is a viewer bug Mike.
sorry no, you keep making claims but you really dont understand mesh, and in this case, you are claiming that somehow, repeatedly, over several months, DIFFERENT versions of the viewer kept making the same mistake loading the wrong texture into the material, a texture that belongs to a different material on the same mesh, even though I have repeatedly reset the proper texture on the erroneous material, AND installed different viewers AND cleared my cache multiple times, and ONLY on this one mesh object....

I'm not an idiot here, I've spent many years troubleshooting software and electrical/electronic systems. When you keep trying to fix a problem by doing the same thing over and over again, and it isn't fixed, the proper conclusion is that that fix is not an actual fix, and what you are blaming for the problem isn't the actual problem.

Today when I clicked on it to take a copy, when I LET GO OF IT, is when the proper texture snapped onto the object, not when I first grabbed it, and it used the texture properly for that material which IS PRESENT ALREADY on neighboring meshes same material numbers. You have a problem with your asset server, if it was a viewer problem I'd be seeing this bug on more than one object and more than one material, but it is ALWAYS only this object and this material in this region. I am going to rez the same object in another region to see if the same bug shows up on the same object in another region, then we can rule out the region being the problem, so then it will ABSOLUTELY be the asset server that is the problem, you wont be able to deny it.
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Mike Lorrey
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Re: the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

Post by Mike Lorrey »

Ilan Tochner wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:40 pm
Hi Christine,

If the server didn't hold the proper texture mapping then Mike's viewer wouldn't be able to display the correct mapping once the object was touched. The viewer needed to have the proper mapping information and the correct textures delivered to it using the same UUIDs that the mesh was stored with on our system for it to properly rezz after it was touched. There is a good question why it didn't do so before the object was touched but that is something that needs to be addressed by the viewer developers (Firestorm in this case though this could be a bug that was inherited from the Second Life viewer that Firestorm is based on).
oh and look at that, teleported back and the wrong texture is back on the objects
material texture bug remains_003.png
material texture bug remains_003.png (416.08 KiB) Viewed 13436 times
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Mike Lorrey
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Re: the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

Post by Mike Lorrey »

Ilan Tochner wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:40 pm
Hi Christine,

If the server didn't hold the proper texture mapping then Mike's viewer wouldn't be able to display the correct mapping once the object was touched. The viewer needed to have the proper mapping information and the correct textures delivered to it using the same UUIDs that the mesh was stored with on our system for it to properly rezz after it was touched. There is a good question why it didn't do so before the object was touched but that is something that needs to be addressed by the viewer developers (Firestorm in this case though this could be a bug that was inherited from the Second Life viewer that Firestorm is based on).
And I rezzed it in SPACE FORCE region in the sandbox with the right texture on it, teleported home, came back, and LOOK AT THAT... wrong texture appears (I made sure when I rezzed it that it had the right texture. This is NOT a viewer thing, its NOT a region thing. Its an ASSET SERVER THING. Wake up, and admit it. At this point when you find the bug I want an apology.
material texture bug remains_004.png
material texture bug remains_004.png (366.77 KiB) Viewed 13435 times
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Re: the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

Post by Ilan Tochner »

Mike, it's very simple. The viewer doesn't know anything about the virtual world it is visiting unless it gets that information from the server it connects to. It can only know to apply a certain texture to a certain object if that object references that texture's identifier. The viewer then needs to query the server for the texture that matches that identifier for it to be able to apply it.

Your viewer got the data about what objects the world contains from our system when you entered the world and your viewer then downloaded those assets from our system. If your viewer cache was empty before you entered the world then that is the only way the viewer could have gotten the data it needed to rezz the object. It doesn't matter if it then did it immediately, did it only once you touched the object, did it after you released the object, or did it only after you did anything else inside the viewer. The viewer would not have been able to properly display the texture on the mesh unless it both knew what texture to display and had downloaded that texture from our system using the same identifier that the mesh references.

There is no magic here, the data is sent from our system to your viewer and it decides what it does with it. The fact that it can immediately display things properly when you click and release something inworld should show you that it already has all the data it needs to be able to do so. As you believe I'm trying to gaslight you, I'd love to hear your technical explanation for how the mesh could be immediately displayed after you touched and released the object without our system properly telling the viewer that the mesh exists in the virtual world and providing it with the proper textures to rezz it.
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Re: the material texture error bug is real in Naboo

Post by Tess Juel »

Mike Lorrey wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:21 pm
a) the correct texture was already on another material of the neighboring mesh, so you are wrong. It took no time to download it cause it already had it
Ok. You didn't mention that and it makes a difference of course. Even so it must mean the viewer already had the right texture UUID so it can't be purely a server side issue.

I've seen something similar before so I can at least confirm that such a weird bug is possible. That was on a different grid running the very first distribution of opensim 0.9. What happened then was that the meshed showed up with the right textures but next time I went to the sim, face 7 had switched to a texture used by another face of the same mesh. Clicking on the object didn't solve the issue then and the bug did not show up in everybody's viewer. Unfortunately we never figured out what was happening back then.
Last edited by Tess Juel on Wed Jan 11, 2023 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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