Export Permissions

[Marianna Monentes]

Kitely's export permission will not allow me to export my very own creations in my own OAR. Kitely advertising that you can create your OAR only to find out after a year of creating that the export permissions will not allow you to export your very own creations, which I find ludicrous. Unless you upload your creations to the Kitely market and make that item export your very own creations cannot leave the Kitely grid. So in other words you would have to upload all items you wish to export in an OAR into the Kitely Market. I am sorry Ilan, but I should be able to export my very own creations regardless of what permissions I have on them! I have created jewelry for the last year and the only way it can leave is through your markets export permissions. I am glad that most is saved on my hard drive and lucky I have backup. What good is an OAR then? Not all of my items can be uploaded into the Kitely Market!


This is what was given to me as an explanation Hi Mari,

When you export an OAR file from Kitely you get an Export World Report that tells you what, if any, objects where removed from the OAR file and why. Please see: https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-ne ... plemented/

Looking at the export log this is the explanation it gives
First, the items may belong to a No-Export product. Second, the items may have been created by Kitely Market as the result of a Demo or Debug delivery. Such items are restricted and may not be exported. And finally, the items may have been created in a delivery that was subsequently canceled, e.g. due to a refund. The specific objects and assets that can't be exported are highlighted in bold, along with a link to the product that they came from.

[Ilan Tochner]

Hi Marianna,

You misunderstood how Kitely Market export controls work. Please see: https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-ne ... plemented/ and https://www.kitely.com/virtual-world-ne ... rmissions/

This is how we decide if an object is exportable:

If the item was delivered from Kitely Market then we check the Export permission it had on the Kitely Market listing. If you rezz an object that was acquired from Kitely Market with No Export then it will not be included in OAR files you create and you won't be able to take it to other grids.

If the item was NOT delivered from Kitely Market and you are it's owner then we check the "Owner Copy" and "Owner Transfer" permissions for the item. If you have them both then you'll be able to export the item. If you don't have them both then you won't be able to export it.

If the item was NOT delivered from Kitely Market and you are NOT it's owner then we check the "Everyone Copy" and "Everyone Transfer" permissions for the items. The item will need to have them both for you to be able to export it.

In other words, the items you listed in Kitely Market then tried to export aren't exportable because you used a copy of those items that you delivered from Kitely Market and had listed as No-Export. There was no reason for you to do that, you could have just used the copy in your Kitely avatar's inventory, the one with which you created the product listing in the first place. That copy wasn't market No-Export and thus, assuming you had Copy+Transfer permissions for it, would be exportable by you.

My suggestion is that you use the Export World Report to find where you need to replace Kitely Market No-Export items with your copy of those items that you hadn't marked as No-Export . The reports includes the names and coordinates of each of the items that couldn't be exported and what made them No Export.

[Marianna Monentes]

Sounds great on paper Ilan, how about if the Item NOT in Market is set FULL PERMS with all my OWN textures and no scripts inside nothing but my OWN full perm creations cannot be exported out I have been trying now for a year, it's not working Ilan what you indicated, I have to make items full perms and NOT ALL export it is hit and miss. Many have complained to you about it and your answer always is the same yet it never works and nothing ever changes, I conducted enough tests to know . I create the item then upload to Kitely, the item is marked full perms, I pass to individuals, none can take to their grid unless I upload that item to Market and check EXPORT then and ONLY then will it export. I am done trying thanks. ALL MY ITEMS in Kitely Market are EXPORT, quit trying to confuse people into thinking its me Ilan, all anyone has to do is look at the forum posts to see this is in fact a Kitely issue.

[Ilan Tochner]

Mari, at no point do we require items be full perm to be exportable. When you give an item to someone else they get it with the Next Owner permissions your object had when it was in your possession. If those permissions didn't include Next Owner Copy and Next Owner Transfer then the person you gave the item to will not have the required Owner Copy and Owner Transfer permissions to export them unless those items were also delivered from Kitely Market with the Export permission. The Export permission from Kitely Market enables people who own an object but don't have the Owner Copy and Owner Transfer permissions for it to export it.

The Export Report includes links to the Kitely Market product listings from which the non exportable items were acquired. Changing the product market listing after the item was delivered doesn't change the permissions of the item that was already delivered.

Please look at your World Export Report. All the links it includes are to other people's Kitely Market products that are no-export and therefore couldn't be exported. The only places where your own products are mentioned in connection to a No-Export Kitely Market product is where your products included other people's No-Export products.

All the other items that are listed in your world's report as not included in the OAR file were not included because you don't have both Owner Copy and Owner Transfer permissions for them. If your Kitely avatar is the Creator of those items then you should be able to grant yourself Owner Copy and Owner Transfer permissions for these items (assuming they don't include other people's components).

The way this works is exactly as I described it and how it is described in the articles I linked to. The World Export Report can help you determine the exact reason why an object is not exportable. I suggest you read the articles I gave you then use the report to see that things are as I explained.

[Marianna Monentes]

When I say full perms I am indicating ALL permissions are checked as I can, some are grayed out and you cannot tick or untick the permissions boxes. Some of the older jewelry I uploaded here to kitely have export indicated, the new jewelry I create the export is grayed out and cannot tick it. Permissions do not work as you indicate PERIOD, next owner copy transfer is hit and miss too, older jewelry is fine, jewelry within the last year is not. Full perm jewelry shows NO EXPORT no matter what I try!

[Marianna Monentes]

When I say full perms I am indicating ALL permissions are checked as I can, some are grayed out and you cannot tick or untick the permissions boxes. Some of the older jewelry I uploaded here to kitely have export indicated, the new jewelry I create the export is grayed out and cannot tick it. Permissions do not work as you indicate PERIOD, next owner copy transfer is hit and miss too, older jewelry is fine, jewelry within the last year is not. Full perm jewelry shows NO EXPORT no matter what I try!

I did look at the report and the Monentes items that did not export out SHOULD HAVE! That's the point, saying the next owner copy and transfer permissions should not matter if I am the creator of the items. As I said I am done here, you can keep saying "Mari you don't understand the export permissions!" You are 100% correct, me and about 100 residents don't, your exporting doesn't always work as you indicate therefore I don't understand it and not going to keep banging my head and wasting my own time trying, just fix it.

[Ilan Tochner]

Mari, as explained in the first article, Kitely doesn't use the Export permission you see in the viewer so whatever value you see in the viewer doesn't matter. What Kitely uses is the system I described in my previous posts in this thread, the Export permission in Kitely Market (for items delivered from our marketplace) and Owner Copy + Transfer for items that didn't arrive from our marketplace.

Item permissions are very complicated and can be affected by many things, including folded permissions, slam bits, owner permissions, group permissions, etc. (this is how Linden Lab designed it). You can read more about it here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Debug_Permissions

In OpenSim we also have to deal with the complexities that exist because of the Hypergrid and how it affects the aforementioned systems (for example, people creating content in one grid then bringing it to a different grid where the original creator is NOT the same as their local avatar).

All this to say, our export control system is not broken, it works exactly as we designed it and if you investigate each case you'll be able to see why that item is non exportable and how that fits with the system I described.

[Marianna Monentes]

Mari, as explained in the first article, Kitely doesn't use the Export permission you see in the viewer so whatever value you see in the viewer doesn't matter. What Kitely uses is the system I described in my previous posts in this thread, the Export permission in Kitely Market (for items delivered from our marketplace) and Owner Copy + Transfer for items that didn't arrive from our marketplace.

Item permissions are very complicated and can be affected by many things, including folded permissions, slam bits, owner permissions, group permissions, etc. (this is how Linden Lab designed it). You can read more about it here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Debug_Permissions

In OpenSim we also have to deal with the complexities that exist because of the Hypergrid and how it affects the aforementioned systems (for example, people creating content in one grid then bringing it to a different grid where the original creator is NOT the same as their local avatar).

All this to say, our export control system is not broken, it works exactly as we designed it and if you investigate each case you'll be able to see why that item is non exportable and how that fits with the system I described.

blah blah blah right sorry but I have lost my patience with your long winded replies, I don't have this issue anyplace else just in Kitely. When items are set to full permissions meaning NEXT OWNER, my CREATIONS, people cannot take my items back to their grid. Sometimes can Sometimes not. Permissions don't have to be as complicated as you are making them. This issue I am having ONLY exists in Kitely. So, the best solution is to not create anymore items and upload to Kitely because there is no guarantee 1. Your items will be included in your OARS and 2. Even Full Permission items do NOT export out. WE tested it.

[Ilan Tochner]

People who know how to follow guidance have no issues Mari. You're free to take your business elsewhere if you don't find our service to your liking.

[Marianna Monentes]

An insult to my intelligence did just that Ilan, I will go elsewhere with pleasure.

Residents also need to know your stance on Share Alike Creative Commons items that they are not allowed to have any share alike items at grid because of your rules, that means all NPC and Paramour items are share alike or if you get items from Outworldz, many of the items there are Share Alike CC0 permissions but guess what folks? Ilan says none of it is allowed in Kitely. Yes I changed the topic of my thread because people are being lied to, it has nothing to do with whether a person can follow directions or not, I think most people agree that I might have a disability but I am intelligent enough to follow directions, where I have issue is when people use greed for their own gain.

I have ALL the long winded replies from Ilan why my project was not allowed here in Kitely because the Dr, Wallace J. Nichols had a Creative Commons 4.0 Share Alike License, after I spent a week or more creating it at my world Ilan said I was to remove ALL Share Alike CC0 from my inventory because it was not allowed in Kitely.

To me this is not community spirit at all, this is just a facade. A false appearance that makes someone or something seem more pleasant or better than they really are. Adios Ilan

*Update*

5/2/2020 I have been trying to obtain my jewelry from Kitely so logged into the Welcome region to work on inventory for the transfer and see Ilan has the very same dance machine. So I am left very confused by all of this.