I've recently tried adding layers to the Devokan 2x2 world by working in SoaS to move existing builds to fixed heights, saving the results as oars, and then merging the oars to create a final megaregion oar with 20k prims and just under 1500 scripts. The intention is to fully develop/adapt the skybuilds into places to visit over the coming months.
The world is loading in under 2 minutes (1:15 to viewer startup, then about 30-45 seconds till the world becomes visible).
However, at first, my avie cannot move except by double-clicking on the world map, and avie attachments aren't there (bald avie, with no shoes). After a while (about 5:30 minutes when I measured it), the attachments pop into existence and the avie can move normally, albeit laggily at first.
Watching the Statistics box (control+shift+1), Time dilation, Sim fps and Physics fps are at 0 during this period. When attachments appear and avie can move, non-zero values appear. After this, when others come into the world, they seem to have no problem in moving or with missing attachments.
Do I need to go back to a simpler build?
---------------
Edit (31 Dec 2012): Amended thread title to reflect that it is a problem of the build, not the system.
Complexity and physics
-
Dot Macchi
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Complexity and physics
Last edited by Dot Macchi on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dot Macchi
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?
I've tried again, in Firestorm. This time the world load time was much the same, but the delay before the physics started up was of the order of seconds. Perhaps it was a blip in the internet.
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Ilan Tochner
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?
Hi Dot,
What elevations are you using for the skybuilds?
What elevations are you using for the skybuilds?
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Dot Macchi
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?
One is centred at 1000m (this is the Rivages du ciel neuron area, which I haven't moved from Shenn's original placement, but could if need be).
The others are at 1370m, 2020m and 3000m.
The others are at 1370m, 2020m and 3000m.
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Ilan Tochner
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?
Hi Dot,
The problem isn't with skybuilds per say. For example. see the following 100,000 prim world that has builds in multiple level going up to 4000m:
http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world/Law ... ity-Test-2
We'll need to investigate why your particular world is freezing up. Have you experienced this problem when accessing your world from different computers and/or viewers?
(as an aside, I'd recommend refraining from building above 3500m as viewers can have problems displaying objects that are above 4096m and you want to leave enough space for people to be able to fly up)
The problem isn't with skybuilds per say. For example. see the following 100,000 prim world that has builds in multiple level going up to 4000m:
http://www.kitely.com/virtual-world/Law ... ity-Test-2
We'll need to investigate why your particular world is freezing up. Have you experienced this problem when accessing your world from different computers and/or viewers?
(as an aside, I'd recommend refraining from building above 3500m as viewers can have problems displaying objects that are above 4096m and you want to leave enough space for people to be able to fly up)
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Dot Macchi
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?
Thanks for the replies, Ilan.
Originally I experienced the freeze with both Firestorm and Imprudence; this was on the Mac. I'll try again on a PC and report back.
============================
Edit: The freeze lasted for about 3:45 minutes in Imprudence on the PC -- same symptoms as on the Mac.
I'll try again in Firestorm on the PC.
============================
Edit 2: No freeze this time, but I hadn't allowed the world to close down since trying in Imp. I'll try to leave it a bit longer.
============================
Edit 3: In Firestorm on the PC with the world starting up from scratch, the freeze lasted for about 4 minutes; same symptoms.
Originally I experienced the freeze with both Firestorm and Imprudence; this was on the Mac. I'll try again on a PC and report back.
============================
Edit: The freeze lasted for about 3:45 minutes in Imprudence on the PC -- same symptoms as on the Mac.
I'll try again in Firestorm on the PC.
============================
Edit 2: No freeze this time, but I hadn't allowed the world to close down since trying in Imp. I'll try to leave it a bit longer.
============================
Edit 3: In Firestorm on the PC with the world starting up from scratch, the freeze lasted for about 4 minutes; same symptoms.
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Dot Macchi
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Re: Complexity and physics: have I maxed out the system?
Trying the same test in a previous version of the world but without the builds at 1370m, 2020m or the NE corner of 3000m has no freeze in Firestorm on the PC. So the problem lies in one or more of those additions.
Testing this out by teleporting to Evergreen, I experienced a similar freeze on arrival, albeit just for a few seconds. The build in common is Tao, the sky castle, albeit this one is at ground level.
And running a similar test in Future Past, which has sky builds equivalent to those at 1370m and 2020m, results in no freeze.
So it looks like Tao might tip the balance.
==============
Edit: I've loaded the standalone oar for Tao into a single test region, and that is not exhibiting the freeze on entering the world, tested on Mac and PC in Firestorm.
Testing this out by teleporting to Evergreen, I experienced a similar freeze on arrival, albeit just for a few seconds. The build in common is Tao, the sky castle, albeit this one is at ground level.
And running a similar test in Future Past, which has sky builds equivalent to those at 1370m and 2020m, results in no freeze.
So it looks like Tao might tip the balance.
==============
Edit: I've loaded the standalone oar for Tao into a single test region, and that is not exhibiting the freeze on entering the world, tested on Mac and PC in Firestorm.
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Oren Hurvitz
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Re: Complexity and physics
Hi Dot,
The freeze happens while ODE is busy creating physics meshes for the objects in the world. The situation in this world is a worst-case scenario: there are many objects that use meshes (this includes both true mesh objects and sculpties), and their shapes are complicated so it takes ODE a long time to create the physics mesh.
This problem was reported in the past on Devokan. It was on a different version of the world then, called "Devokan mega". The solution was to simplify the physics meshes.
Here's a partial list of the slow objects (only objects that took more than 0.5 seconds to create their physics mesh are shown). Perhaps by looking at a few of these you'll find a way to make their physics mesh simpler:
Primitive/05a6834b-51da-4201-b38b-bbbf52f3b3f3
chemin flottant test 01/d12704cb-77a8-4dd0-bf44-ebaaa398d28e
Primitive/5852e070-8d86-400c-8334-9cf2261393fe
Primitive/cb1bf9e2-288e-4c1a-899a-35d79c8df6f9
Primitive/da5fb900-418c-4b41-bd2b-4294b3554c45
Primitive/b0cb56a2-1c76-4be8-9437-8a532a7a19ad
serenia stone structure/ec244d93-af27-4781-af6c-a9e73a226bfe
Rock/c000ad9b-c0c8-423d-be7c-3033915b640a
Stack of Book 2/1fa7f7d1-1802-467b-8e87-82cf74362380
Object/eb0140ec-c66c-44be-b8eb-cdbeec7e70a5
Primitive/1cc01e88-9993-46dd-a968-3e5c6ddd5db6
serenia stair tread./6fff8e05-ad18-4fbe-b47f-57a03c08aa06
serenia stair tread./ec96703d-5705-414b-883c-b770bd777306
serenia stair tread./9dc9bf20-dc1a-43fd-b615-96d7f57d9dc4
serenia stair tread./a4165c15-e648-4707-b96a-b318a0c353e2
Rock 2/727166b5-a93f-46d7-9bfb-51cb09429e64
rocksculptie2/fbe50874-5737-4617-a6bf-fc88175f046b
Primitive/5dee6121-fc1b-49ec-95fa-aed4011f2825
green leaves darker/a07f7fef-095f-48d9-af02-bd68cf868a7a
Primitive/78e9edc8-7515-49ac-9e32-ccc594dbb51d
Primitive/da31c8bb-af8e-4b84-9eb6-2c31d5c253f1
Primitive/082887c4-0e34-40ef-837c-dda829b82fb7
Primitive/b2e8edd4-5729-4f45-a3bc-28f2a1d92ef7
Primitive/720045c7-b157-4ce7-858f-852e6cbfe2dd
Primitive/de10e8ef-824d-49f7-8158-69c5dee324bb
Primitive/b7280b1c-352e-41a1-8447-f4ed10759932
Primitive/c8cd6c32-be21-4946-9ef3-25eeb645f356
Primitive/f7d52963-4e5a-4de9-9dbe-8ecca01322b8
Primitive/43cea99c-5c67-45fc-91b4-156e54c31617
Primitive/02f29b3a-ee2b-4777-915f-dbfc01ae11ed
Primitive/651898a3-0d82-49f8-854f-c333b6c59602
rock slice/243b1262-b6ad-4cd8-8e2b-45a9474fb7a5
Pod Plant/4f14fcf7-44ff-406f-956d-454abf0f11ff
Blank Closed Book/711c18cf-6868-48e2-94ae-02f1ea995d3c
Primitive/af5b01c5-0b1a-48e5-9850-575ecffbaa8f
Primitive/3bca1242-c0bf-4182-ab9a-0b6ce5ec83fa
rock slice/38fe5752-8199-44e4-9ee8-107a90af0c87
rocksculptie2/363d1d0f-843f-4405-8554-926f7fd1a96e
Pod Plant/fe799e22-c262-4c54-9dad-2e993ed2c629
Primitive/eecd1420-5249-4947-952d-6fe97fcbe0b5
Pod Plant/06360542-e30f-4b1f-9c09-8bb33bd34d37
Primitive/343e0fd1-21fa-4053-aec0-3251ed8a4352
Primitive/c2494f4f-9781-4d08-aa5c-bef358447276
Pod Plant blue/5d87ac44-494c-435d-bae6-ffd6b0056f74
Pod Plant/a82af9a1-6eb2-4943-b960-d4e5ef6a6a4a
Primitive/5e9e76ee-2312-465d-892a-9db5e184d869
green leaves darker/29626f20-9a97-4e74-ad8c-aff5f920ad16
Primitive/c5f058fa-3aaa-4a33-aec0-790fda26df1a
Primitive/07ecc977-4577-49b6-94d7-2aeb085b5098
Primitive/7cfc2756-cefd-4b5b-853b-d63d11327fb2
Primitive/29338812-3f4d-47b3-bdbe-bb1086ddd8b3
Primitive/48b501b3-aa82-4d1a-b8cc-5b2b200d95fb
Primitive/d27f7b4f-f8f7-4f25-a2fa-48c7a866ed9d
Primitive/c30e031e-3a24-4d12-9cd8-0da8af9a302f
Primitive/1d80ac0d-1b61-48c8-a6f3-f4d26eded7da
Primitive/e88eee2e-2cb4-49b0-b546-a9e9705238b7
Primitive/62a309f9-bff4-4604-bc8d-73da137a306d
Primitive/a9ecaa36-bf06-4452-a307-45e8d038556e
Primitive/c56471f2-48af-4e58-84d7-a17315cc2bec
Primitive/919bf627-0ecf-4f55-b9cf-1979cd4d0615
Primitive/c83c9a77-eda9-4ba1-a4e8-e4e3ee3d7fcf
Primitive/7b0310e1-f3ba-4952-934b-4df73e7bafad
Primitive/bf6bc8c0-5927-4de7-aa06-2072ce4e32a4
6 wings/2a8cb951-033f-4f46-b4b2-95c751afd8bd
Primitive/097713e2-91a6-4d52-9fc6-e8c0f3e66ad3
Primitive/31e6e567-d594-45f9-afb4-84977ce0a1a3
flying creature01B/e35755b7-f5e4-477f-b558-7d674aca53bb
rocksculptie2/174c719a-7694-440e-9f63-55a9d6a67429
Primitive/dfdbb422-1c01-4927-bcf7-eb24d8044091
basalt pillar/2ad33866-e771-44f2-9f31-fa91df8e230d
Rock/f76ae455-3f9c-4bef-9642-ea7fe47ae5e1
Pod Plant blue/126f1333-f705-4464-8065-e402ee55d37a
Primitive/5ae49230-b4a8-4157-96d4-3ee9ac72c880
Pod Plant/48bb4ad2-d9b5-42b2-b794-fb52dc8cecb9
Primitive/e03ab5cf-9f51-4636-b69c-c0f150ec36e0
Rock/3f45fe71-a584-4c2e-a508-b1b79b8033ce
rock slice/8123f4df-5669-48a0-bda8-b31289e7ee08
Primitive/65935d9b-e527-4616-84be-68f677310863
stpunkTPcp/2af13bae-808d-43a6-b633-05942c2f1936
Primitive/8fa600e9-234e-4ed6-a5fb-4924819e9cbc
Primitive/904ce61a-3ea0-429f-9b49-69e0015dbf83
Primitive/e5b61f42-7076-4424-96ad-e78d1989690c
Primitive/bb3aa49b-6ddf-41e7-a4d6-db4635548b1c
squiggle circuit/9d04cb7b-6da9-4b17-9bb9-0c7d36a05870
rock slice/69f25008-c8eb-4d0c-8294-387451759831
Primitive/2501f6de-2f93-4902-bb67-276bb5de753b
Primitive/f70380e7-131f-4a4d-81ce-5b84fcaa812f
Primitive/f85b275a-f4b3-4b6f-8ac7-3a0444022c31
Primitive/607434e8-7fc7-4822-9ee0-d658e0166a19
Primitive/903ac7e6-dffd-4413-bc07-a244df1f15ca
rock slice/4674ff06-77e8-4beb-9eb8-d1bb12febe4b
Primitive/4453eb41-be2a-4512-a434-a95813cd37bc
basalt pillar/735f6444-5931-4f96-b554-5db38b7a1179
Primitive/a81e6ba0-32cd-4a3d-8204-3ec24d358f34
rock slice/1d9d05be-da8c-44fa-b07c-78b1b5210252
Rock 2/4a4dbe73-74b8-4269-930d-c198f4af521c
Primitive/50486a26-538c-47a2-8cc6-8025e1a08786
serenia stair tread./f19afc9d-9555-4ba3-93c1-6daff3176d2e
serenia stair tread./b7eb6d4b-776d-4682-865f-e4a351baf7da
Primitive/3d2044a9-aead-4218-9f9a-c1a5cf223401
Primitive/94aecbf6-1064-493f-8729-a13e24287a01
Primitive/be4a339c-7af1-4c44-bb54-ef0694fcb378
Primitive/b3ebb825-8eed-477e-ad0d-d96e417c13e2
Primitive/d3b68a5b-3b6e-41a7-8ad5-75af7307cc34
Primitive/51e94e1f-e9d5-4244-8e49-aa3081e7a33b
Primitive/f3828be8-f2bc-4dbb-8cbd-c1039a561f29
Primitive/2940af5d-a5a7-4ec9-b8be-9b1508d87950
serenia stair tread./8d9b87c0-d167-43b3-b53c-600eb3f38e8b
Primitive/94fc1cf8-be7d-4424-87d8-fde707de46d0
Primitive/5ada17d3-58b2-45a4-8f1a-657879c46c37
Primitive/50cd8b1c-bf05-4bf3-bebd-c80d32225480
Primitive/3dce57d9-8ba9-45d0-845a-4639afe66039
rock slice/8ba46b16-cbca-44ce-af12-8997bf3250ec
Rock 1/367ef914-c12d-494d-a9de-c951be6254dd
Primitive/6ec538cd-1880-4c5e-b577-1442670166aa
serenia stair tread./26e1a7ad-e3a3-4905-a379-f710a1d896c5
Primitive/18af23d4-09fe-4046-9f64-6e77e0b5c19e
Primitive/2790646e-51ba-4921-b244-f49a4c6139db
green leaves darker/1eafb417-ec86-487c-ba0c-31b7e44fc016
Primitive/7dc89b1b-2e22-4fe8-ad16-ff92de61c27f
Primitive/1b517ab1-3803-44e4-87e3-45e66bb9d039
Primitive/99edab27-c30b-4602-b2d4-40d3cb5ea15d
Primitive/3bf755be-1cdf-4289-bad1-301268c53ecd
Primitive/e25b4ab1-0e30-4ad4-8c89-7084b31c8be3
Primitive/5871cd90-dc99-40bb-8a82-b838e901d3d0
Primitive/4c9bcd41-98c9-4aae-afbd-b5cb7fc3067a
Primitive/7e6f1be8-ad5f-4635-9283-7504d2a52661
rock slice/bf6615da-1a5c-41b3-8e53-8cd3e284ed69
Primitive/9bbb8b60-742f-41bd-8f36-2039f5c130c5
Primitive/988bf5f5-f626-4ff3-8ddf-41e63101d58b
paislees seat/2c05737c-8935-4f54-8a87-8fb40988dca6
bass drum/3cbb4de7-3357-4616-a317-fb93bb663b40
Primitive/5e6bb1f7-77fd-47a1-bbac-d76ba987d798
bird/99490ef9-fc0f-4415-9443-932623938c68
photo-pose ball01 avec danses/e9611c3e-540a-4de3-9dfb-a019fb2d6a7f
Single Candle Stick_V2 Lit/6e241104-c7d8-48cf-bcce-c1c028c19cda
Rez/7e8ea993-9b7e-4f7d-a841-0a9991beeafc
Object/370e5164-bc60-4bc1-bc97-42a479caeb81
Object/83ad9a3a-2e1b-4667-a2f5-6e7e0fd30fc5
Primitive/56331b09-2e4b-4c60-b9e3-e94ee9af1511
TOUR1/3c3ef1a4-6e60-4d4e-a09a-3b2688ab8b98
Primitive/e52e69f3-61bd-4e59-a010-ad0399571e56
Primitive/739429f8-9590-4412-923c-f9a702474dcf
Primitive/dfe6226a-ac4f-4361-a599-067540081932
Primitive/3354b428-0312-4288-bfeb-91a128e4632a
Primitive/ae4938ba-9ceb-437d-8940-1cd34e2e2bd5
Primitive/50fc8d0c-6db0-4918-8b2f-ee212a91bd52
Primitive/52dac5ea-775a-47df-886e-3cca9e5babf4
Chene xl vert/9d6c7c08-e988-4330-a590-6f9ad673e222
Primitive/388c82e1-d36b-4853-82e1-f705e0688dad
Primitive/383bee53-bb31-41e4-9757-55e8221c6d02
lathed-column_convex/4dcfd2a4-2413-44fb-b082-53c92fb822e2
Oren
The freeze happens while ODE is busy creating physics meshes for the objects in the world. The situation in this world is a worst-case scenario: there are many objects that use meshes (this includes both true mesh objects and sculpties), and their shapes are complicated so it takes ODE a long time to create the physics mesh.
This problem was reported in the past on Devokan. It was on a different version of the world then, called "Devokan mega". The solution was to simplify the physics meshes.
Here's a partial list of the slow objects (only objects that took more than 0.5 seconds to create their physics mesh are shown). Perhaps by looking at a few of these you'll find a way to make their physics mesh simpler:
Primitive/05a6834b-51da-4201-b38b-bbbf52f3b3f3
chemin flottant test 01/d12704cb-77a8-4dd0-bf44-ebaaa398d28e
Primitive/5852e070-8d86-400c-8334-9cf2261393fe
Primitive/cb1bf9e2-288e-4c1a-899a-35d79c8df6f9
Primitive/da5fb900-418c-4b41-bd2b-4294b3554c45
Primitive/b0cb56a2-1c76-4be8-9437-8a532a7a19ad
serenia stone structure/ec244d93-af27-4781-af6c-a9e73a226bfe
Rock/c000ad9b-c0c8-423d-be7c-3033915b640a
Stack of Book 2/1fa7f7d1-1802-467b-8e87-82cf74362380
Object/eb0140ec-c66c-44be-b8eb-cdbeec7e70a5
Primitive/1cc01e88-9993-46dd-a968-3e5c6ddd5db6
serenia stair tread./6fff8e05-ad18-4fbe-b47f-57a03c08aa06
serenia stair tread./ec96703d-5705-414b-883c-b770bd777306
serenia stair tread./9dc9bf20-dc1a-43fd-b615-96d7f57d9dc4
serenia stair tread./a4165c15-e648-4707-b96a-b318a0c353e2
Rock 2/727166b5-a93f-46d7-9bfb-51cb09429e64
rocksculptie2/fbe50874-5737-4617-a6bf-fc88175f046b
Primitive/5dee6121-fc1b-49ec-95fa-aed4011f2825
green leaves darker/a07f7fef-095f-48d9-af02-bd68cf868a7a
Primitive/78e9edc8-7515-49ac-9e32-ccc594dbb51d
Primitive/da31c8bb-af8e-4b84-9eb6-2c31d5c253f1
Primitive/082887c4-0e34-40ef-837c-dda829b82fb7
Primitive/b2e8edd4-5729-4f45-a3bc-28f2a1d92ef7
Primitive/720045c7-b157-4ce7-858f-852e6cbfe2dd
Primitive/de10e8ef-824d-49f7-8158-69c5dee324bb
Primitive/b7280b1c-352e-41a1-8447-f4ed10759932
Primitive/c8cd6c32-be21-4946-9ef3-25eeb645f356
Primitive/f7d52963-4e5a-4de9-9dbe-8ecca01322b8
Primitive/43cea99c-5c67-45fc-91b4-156e54c31617
Primitive/02f29b3a-ee2b-4777-915f-dbfc01ae11ed
Primitive/651898a3-0d82-49f8-854f-c333b6c59602
rock slice/243b1262-b6ad-4cd8-8e2b-45a9474fb7a5
Pod Plant/4f14fcf7-44ff-406f-956d-454abf0f11ff
Blank Closed Book/711c18cf-6868-48e2-94ae-02f1ea995d3c
Primitive/af5b01c5-0b1a-48e5-9850-575ecffbaa8f
Primitive/3bca1242-c0bf-4182-ab9a-0b6ce5ec83fa
rock slice/38fe5752-8199-44e4-9ee8-107a90af0c87
rocksculptie2/363d1d0f-843f-4405-8554-926f7fd1a96e
Pod Plant/fe799e22-c262-4c54-9dad-2e993ed2c629
Primitive/eecd1420-5249-4947-952d-6fe97fcbe0b5
Pod Plant/06360542-e30f-4b1f-9c09-8bb33bd34d37
Primitive/343e0fd1-21fa-4053-aec0-3251ed8a4352
Primitive/c2494f4f-9781-4d08-aa5c-bef358447276
Pod Plant blue/5d87ac44-494c-435d-bae6-ffd6b0056f74
Pod Plant/a82af9a1-6eb2-4943-b960-d4e5ef6a6a4a
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Oren
-
Dot Macchi
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:15 pm
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Re: Complexity and physics
As I mentioned before, I am not able to simplify the physics meshes because the builds were done by others, often quite a while ago. I'm a curator of their work rather than a builder.
This 2x2 layered world was a second experiment, combining the oars vertically rather than horizontally, but clearly it is not going to work.
Dot's knuckles are duly rapped. It's time to retire these old oars.
Thank you for your patience, help and feedback.
This 2x2 layered world was a second experiment, combining the oars vertically rather than horizontally, but clearly it is not going to work.
Dot's knuckles are duly rapped. It's time to retire these old oars.
Thank you for your patience, help and feedback.