Kitely Forums

....what about Gabpay?

Oct 27, 2022 PayPal Reinstates $2,500 Fine For Spreading ‘Inaccurate’ Information

Did a google search this morning and several sources mention the change

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1 ... 83722.html

Hi Zyzzyx,

I'll reiterate that there is a huge difference between a company adding some clause to a Standard Form agreement and (a) it being legal, and (b) that company actually trying to enforce that clause. As stated previously, I highly doubt they will ever try to enforce that clause as it would result in much bigger damage to their company than any benefit such a "fine" could ever give them.

Updated to note that UK users are subject to the $2500 (or equivalent) fine, it's just omitted from the comparable section but included as follows:

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/u ... activities

Graham Mills wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:17 pm With the usual proviso that I am not a lawyer, it seems to me that the penalty only applies if you use the PayPal service in support of such actions. Not a point I'd personally care to argue in court, of course.

https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/acceptableuse-full

Incidentally, the sanction doesn't seem to apply to the UK unless covered elsewhere.

https://www.paypal.com/uk/legalhub/acceptableuse-full

Mike Lorrey wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:16 pm Ok it looks like Paypal has NOT backed down completely on this. They won't fine you for "misinformation" now, but they WILL fine you for "intolerance" which could be as minor as not using someones pronouns (whether or not you know what they are) or "deadnaming" a transperson you've known since before they transitioned, or just being accused of some other ist-o-phobic offense by someone triggered by your lack of tolerance for their stupidity. It looks like we really do need to 'transition" away from Paypal, especially for an Israeli company, given a liberal company like Paypal could easily determine that Israeli companies are "intolerant" of palestinians or islam or some other foolishness. Time to get out is now.

https://reason.com/2022/10/10/paypal-mi ... UKhQHeb7t0

Graham Mills wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:42 pm Updated to note that UK users are subject to the $2500 (or equivalent) fine,
...

I don't think they are yet. As Ilan said, there is a huge difference between a company adding some clause to a Standard Form agreement and it being legal.

Tess Juel wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:41 am

Graham Mills wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:42 pm Updated to note that UK users are subject to the $2500 (or equivalent) fine,
...

I don't think they are yet. As Ilan said, there is a huge difference between a company adding some clause to a Standard Form agreement and it being legal.

You may well be right and given the scope I'm not losing any sleep over it anyway. Just wanted to point out that US and UK users are, at least superficially, in similar situations. Legal niceties I leave to lawyaers.

I do have a pay pal account but have used it very seldom as I have always used my debit card pretty much everywhere. So why not have that option here too? Just curious

Hi Liria,

Accepting payments directly without using a payment processing service is a lot more complicated than it sounds. It requires following strict and expensive procedures for collection, handling and storage of billing information to become PCI compliant. The billions of stolen billing credentials that were reported in the news are a result of companies that tried to handle billing information without strictly following these regulations.

A company such as ours also needs to be able to process payment from a very wide range of international payment options which complicates things further.

Finally, without using a payment processing service we'd need to be able to handle payment disputes and chargebacks ourselves and that would further increase our cost of accepting payments.

Doing all those things would require we segnificantly increase our prices to offer what most buyers would still consider an inferior service to the one they get when they see our processing is provided by PayPal. That is because PayPal is an intentionaly recognized billing processor that, dispite all its shortcomings, is known for keeping billing information secure and almost always siding with buyers if they wish to dispute a payment.

In other words, we'd love to have a better alternative to using PayPal but none is available to us as an Israeli company at this time. Accepting payments without a billing processor isn't really a better option for the aforementioned reasons.

What about getting paid with Amazon eGift cards instead of paypal?

Hi Gusher,

As stated above, as an Israeli company we have limited ability to accept payment other than using PayPal. That may change when Stripe finally adds support for Israel, but until that happens there are no viable options that we can support that would justify the R&D and operational costs of supporting them.