Kitely Forums

I dont understand this.. I was thinking this whole forum moderating idea came from a bashing I was undergoing on SLU when I teamed up with Ilan on some topic. It is rather simple I guess. Just keep away from the hard core SLU and we are fine. I gave it some time but in this "SLU" case time does not change personalities;-(. We, here at Kitely should be happy to be amongst "soul mates". We can change the virtual world as it is! And we will! Al wee need is stick together and respect each other. Taking some time between writing and actually posting a reply will also help;-)

A hug to anyone involved in this venture.

Ami

Marstol,

I sympathize with your reservations. Given the penchant in modern society for rampant paranoia and political correctness, it sometimes seems like honest communication between human beings is a relic of the past. I would certainly hate to see such paranoia drive the policies here in the Kitely forums - or in the Kitely service in general.

That said, some rules are needed in any environment. It would be nice if that wasn't true, but alas we are talking about human beings here. As much as we'd like our fellow adults to always behave like adults, we cannot count on that being the case. Also remember that 13-year-olds can have access to Kitely, although I confess to forgetting if under-18 Kitely members have access to the forums.

The good news is that Ilan wants to keep this as simple as possible. He made it quite clear at the meeting yesterday that he wanted reduce it to one or two sentences that would describe the conduct expected when using the forums. I still think Tully's statement quoted in the OP said it best. Some version of that sentence would do nicely IMO.

Just realized a post of mine got gobbled earlier, grr.

I understand Marstol's desire just to have us all behave like mature adults and not wanting to feel like there's a principle up high rapping our knuckles because we said "doody" or made too much noise in the hall. Adults should be able to conduct themselves reasonably without having to be told in painful nitty gritty detail what "reasonable" means. I want to be treated like an adult and be given the opportunity to behave like an adult too.

I want to be able to have strenuous, energetic disagreements expressing my honest feelings without feeling like I have to sugar-coat them to make them palatable or avoid breaking rules against negativity. I feel that I can be honest, and even express stark displeasure and still remain civil, still stick to the facts, still show respect to the people I disagree with.

I think most everybody here feels something like that. But I agree with Deuce. Simple guidelines for expected behavior in our forums is going to become more and more important as the community grows. I think the guidelines should take into consideration the audience that will be coming here, including the 13-year olds and people who wish to use Kitely for professional reasons.

I should also say I never intended my "no grid-bashing, no personal attacks, no swearing" to be suggested verbatim as forum policy. It is simplistic and doesn't reflect the nuances we have been talking about.

Amiryu Hosoi wrote:I dont understand this.. I was thinking this whole forum moderating idea came from a bashing I was undergoing on SLU when I teamed up with Ilan on some topic.

Oh I'm sorry to hear that Ami. Been there, done that, and they can be brutal. I have never seen anything even close to that here and doubt I ever will.

Minethere Always wrote:We gotta try and keep perspective here folx, and, since this is being said by a known Meta Nutcase, YOU SHOULD ALL LISTEN!!!

I hope you aren't referring to yourself as a known Meta Nutcase. You may be known, but your not even a little nuts. I however, am a bit of a nutcase, but pretty much unknown.

Deuce Halsey wrote:I still think Tully's statement quoted in the OP said it best. Some version of that sentence would do nicely IMO.

Duece, I don't believe I said there should be no rules. That being said, I mostly I agree with you right up to here. "... please keep the tone of your posts positive and be considerate of other users." Is extremely subjective, and a bit too Pollyanna for me. Not every post or idea is going to be positive. Is this to become someplace where we all blow smoke... Or do you really want to know what each other thinks?

"we request that you avoid insults, personal attacks, and overtly negative expressions." Again, highly subjective. For example, Dundrige thought I was attacking his values when I said I didn't want to base forum rules on fictional characters. I thought I was stating an opinion and was not trying to attack him. Should I be banned?

I often find that sometimes people coming from SL want to make changes that make Kitely more like SL. If I wanted that, why would I be here? Some of us have been here since the beginning or in my case almost the beginning and have managed to avoid these pitfalls for the most part and communicate with (or ignore in some cases) each other. <<< Could also be interpretted as an overtly negative expression.

Ilan - As far as being a liability issue for Kitely, by all means cover yourself. I personally couldn't care less about discussing other grids. Which is why I only discussed it on one thread, months ago, in response to what I perceived as an attack on Kitely and you. Maybe it's the mother in me, but I do not respond well to attacks on my friends or my grid and will not apologize for coming to the defense.

Marstol Nitely wrote:

Deuce Halsey wrote:I still think Tully's statement quoted in the OP said it best. Some version of that sentence would do nicely IMO.

Duece, I don't believe I said there should be no rules. That being said, I mostly I agree with you right up to here. "... please keep the tone of your posts positive and be considerate of other users." Is extremely subjective, and a bit too Pollyanna for me. Not every post or idea is going to be positive. Is this to become someplace where we all blow smoke... Or do you really want to know what each other thinks?

Language is not mathematics, so yes there are subjective elements to all human communication. That said, it is possible to maintain a positive and considerate attitude within a message even while strongly disagreeing with someone else. See this message for one example.

Seriously, though, you can say "no" to something while still remaining positive. There is such a thing as "constructive criticism", which involves providing both positive and negative feedback on ideas or issues, all the while maintaining a friendly attitude towards the other people involved.

As far as wanting Kitely to be more like SL, put me in the "no" column there.

If I want to be nothing more than the best possible version of me, that is a fictional character.
Fictional characters are created by real people, voiced by real people, and quoted by real people, be it good or bad.

Dismissing "Be excellent to each other" seems odd to me. Why NOT be excellent to each other ? Why would I NOT want to be whatever I interpret to be a better version of myself ?

I do find it hard to understand why that one comment provoked antagonism. It is usually regarded as humorous and actually a pretty good idea, not particularly overbearing or restrictive, and certainly not intended to annoy. This is a very serious topic, it could do with a bit of lightening up.

Maybe I should just turn to evil.
nah, that'd break Wheaton's law.


We now return you to your scheduled discussions.

I'd like to be like Glinda, but probably come off closer to Elphaba at times. Be who you wish and let me be me. Which isn't always positive.

Marstol Nitely wrote:

Amiryu Hosoi wrote:Ilan - As far as being a liability issue for Kitely, by all means cover yourself. I personally couldn't care less about discussing other grids. Which is why I only discussed it on one thread, months ago, in response to what I perceived as an attack on Kitely and you. Maybe it's the mother in me, but I do not respond well to attacks on my friends or my grid and will not apologize for coming to the defense.

I appreciate it when you, and others, come to my or Kitely's defense in various forum discussions.

The thing we are trying to accomplish with these guidelines is that people will be able to continue having heated debates about issues but will refrain from having heated debates about each other - thereby hopefully removing the need for people to come to each other's defense and reducing the likelihood of internal strife in the Kitely community. In other words, disagreement about issues okay, personal attacks not okay. If people have a personal problem with each other then the forums isn't the right place to discuss them - that's what PMs and inworld IMs are for.

"disagreement about issues okay, personal attacks not okay"

That for me sums up the one rule to bind them all, no ad hominem attacks.

I'm not sure about religion, but I can't imagine a virtual worlds forum that doesn't discuss politics.
Intellectual property and internet regulation for example are essentially about the legal framework arising from political debate and decision.

Thus far I've been impressed by the quality and politeness of discussion on Kitely forums, long may it remain so.